Large or Small?

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Sindbad

......................... due to our space and comfort requirements. ................... we bought a Tayana 55 ............ we are extremly happy with our choice. ..............

I chopped these three phrases from Sinbad's post that I believe represent the essence of their thoughts and I'm not opposed to them; however they don't represent everyones goals. There's no doubt that even a 500' boat, by technology, can be designed to be piloted by one or two people. The true question in large or small is not the question of what is suitable or maneuverable or attainable, but what is desirable!

Some might dream of a mansion on a hill top while others wish for a cabin by a brook.

Some might go camping in an motorhome with "pullouts" while other go camping with a tent strapped to a backpack.

Some might like the Frappuccino for the sophisticated palette while others might want to wake up with a glass of water.

Some might want to cross the Grand Canyon by helicopter and some might choose the hike.

My nephew lived well on his Catalina 22, but he's thrilled with his new Soverign 23 that he bought for $200. I've been on my same Morgan 41 for the past thirty years and am thrilled with the space I have after having my two children grow up and leave! My daughter's family just left their 2,500 square ft. house for their 36' Gulfstar and they are pleased too. There can be little debate about what is right or best in a boat, but simply what suits the owners. Given all the unlimited choices of vessels I would choose more quality and maybe the same size, but likely a little smaller. Other choices are no better or worse!

[lifeofreilly57]

Again it seems it's personal choice.
I do feel that you either have to be able to fix your own or be able to afford to pay someone else to if you can't.
If you lack the ability to do it yourself or lack the money to pay someone else it's going to put a huge crimp on your plans.
Size and complexity play a crucial role in this case and can wreak havoc on your cruising plans.
I like the comfort of a larger cruising boat but know it has it's limits, both financial and practical. That's why I don't believe there is the perfect cruising boat, just the perfect boat for the individual situation and need. It is a good idea though to have a serious dose of reality when buying one, you need to have a dream to sustain you through the endless work it takes to find and prep, maintain and upgrade a cruising boat, you just don't want to put yourself in an untenable situation if your aspirations outpace your abilities.
That's when people fall out of love with their dream, just be real about what you really need and can handle.
I didn't have the technical or sailing ability I have now when I started, it's been a long learning curve, I could never have owned and maintained all the mechanical and electrical (electronics) systems on my current boat when I got into it, now that I have that knowledge it does make things much easier. It also has the added benefit of making my wife much more comfortable with the whole scheme, especially when it comes to safety and security at sea, she has excellent sailing and boat skills but not the technical skills, her learning curve is much faster since I'm able to explain and teach with "on the job" training. Nothing like getting your hands dirty and troubleshooting an issue to advance your technical knowledge.
In that vein, if your still at the beginning stages of your technical maintenance skill set there's nothing like a simple boat, the maintenance issues are usually simpler and easier to learn, the sense of satisfaction gained from troubleshooting it yourself will only increase your satisfaction with your choice.
If your abilities are more advanced, then what the heck, go big.
You just don't want to get into something so far over your head that the experience becomes a negative one. I sure wouldn't want to make some of the mistakes I made on smaller, simpler boats with my current one, the cost would have been too high and much more dangerous.
A reasonable bit over your technical and boat handling skill set is always a good learning experience, way over your head may not be as rewarding.

[accomplice]

Originally Posted by Sindbad

[...]we bought Laroobaa a Tayana 55.[...] In 30 knots with all sail area up Laroobaa sails very comfortable, if we have stronger gusts, we ease the sheets a bit, bear away a little and everything is fine again. [...]

On our Tayana 58, a close relative of the 55, we put in our first reef well before 30 knots, usually before 20kts. Do you mean to say you reach in 30 knots under full sail (main, genoa and staysail)?

[Sindbad]

Originally Posted by accomplice

On our Tayana 58, a close relative of the 55, we put in our first reef well before 30 knots, usually before 20kts. Do you mean to say you reach in 30 knots under full sail (main, genoa and staysail)?

.. oops, sorry, I was not clear here.
We are currently sailing in the Aegean Sea and it is not uncommon that the wind speed changes from 10 kn to 30 kn within one hour or so. When I am leaving an anchorage and there are winds of 20 kn I put in the first reef in the main and full genoa. Usually no stay sail. Pretty much sure the wind drops to around 10 kn after half an hour or so and to keep us going I hoist the full mainsail. Instead of changing the sailplan every other minute in case the wind picks I apply the strategy described in my other post: bear away and ease the sheets until I feel comfortable again.
To give you an example: last month we sailed under full genoa and main sail from Chios to Mykonos and rounding the north tip of Mykonos we had 30 kn of wind. Instead of trying to get into the to us unknown marina under such conditions, we decided to keep going south, beared away until running. Behind the main sail, secured by a preventer, I could furl the genoa. We sailed along the west coast of Mykonos with up to 40 kn true wind behind us. Worked ver well for us.

[JustCroozin]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

Some might like the Frappuccino for the sophisticated palette while others might want to wake up with a glass of water.

I agreed with everything until you wrote that... Sophisticated palates don't drink frappuccinos, or anything else made up by Starbucks for that matter :-) Then again, my need is for a cruising yacht big enough to house a generator and my 40kg worth of espresso machine and grinder 😄😄😄😄



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[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by JustCroozin

I agreed with everything until you wrote that... Sophisticated palates don't drink frappuccinos, or anything else made up by Starbucks for that matter :-) Then again, my need is for a cruising yacht big enough to house a generator and my 40kg worth of espresso machine and grinder ��������



Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

You definitely identified my weak knowledge here! I've never bought a drink in a Starbuck's! ..... I had to search for an example of something opposing my simple taste.

[JustCroozin]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

You definitely identified my weak knowledge here! I've never bought a drink in a Starbuck's!

Keep it up, you're not missing anything. Starbuck's is to coffee what McDonald's is to fine dining

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by JustCroozin

Keep it up, you're not missing anything. Starbuck's is to coffee what McDonald's is to fine dining

Funny, reminds me of a saying I heard (and use often):

"Friends, don't let friends, go to Starbucks."

[Kenomac]

Up to 60ft on a boat like an Oyster 575 or a Tayana 58 is fine for a cruising couple who sometimes have guests. Beyond that size, the weight of things begins to get in the way eg. sails, lines etc without doubling up the help which usually means the necessity of adding crew. When the boat size grows from 60ft up to 75ft, mostly all that's gained is crew quarters. Below 60ft, everything is still manageable. Beyond 75ft, I don't think there's much debate on the necessity for crew.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by JustCroozin

I agreed with everything until you wrote that... Sophisticated palates don't drink frappuccinos, or anything else made up by Starbucks for that matter :-) Then again, my need is for a cruising yacht big enough to house a generator and my 40kg worth of espresso machine and grinder 😄😄😄😄



Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

So, tell me now, smart stern: how many sophisticated palates have you asked???

It is so common to bash Frappucinoes and Bavariaes these days.

We all do.

;-)
b.

[maj75]

I am in the selection process for a cruising boat. I'm in my late 50s and retired. My wife is 5 years younger. Financially we could afford anything up to a mill for the boat. We've chartered many times, but do not have the free time to cruise at present as she is still working and plans to work for 5-8 more years. We've sailed 40' monos and 47' Cats. We have a big fast center console power boat that lets us get to where we want to go, in the time we have available. That means we can get to the Keys or Bahamas and back in one weekend.

I want to get the sailboat within the next few years, have a few years to sail and refit the boat before we set off on our cruise. I envision cruising for a few years, only. I'm sure we will have a home base. Maybe our current home or maybe something smaller.
My perfect boat would probably be an older solid fiberglass or aluminum boat. I hate leaks and rotted decking. It would be 45-55' in length and a ketch rig. I would spend the money for bow thruster and powered winches. Not a huge fan of roller main sails, but I see the short handed advantage. A refit would be figured into the cost. We are in Florida where at least for us, AC is a necessity. That means adding another system to an older boat. However, I look at the refit as a chance to build my perfect boat and do it better than it might have been done originally. Fuel and water tankage should be large and plenty of storage. A pilothouse might be nice as protection from the sun is important. One brush with skin cancer is enough, thanks. Oyster and Amel are at the top of my list at the moment.

Thanks for this discussion as it helps me keep my focus in a reasonable range.

[JustCroozin]

Not a ketch rig and at the top end of your price range, but a Discovery 55 would fit all the other criteria.

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by thinwater

If I were cruising full time with my wife I would go up a little, perhaps 40', but no more than 36' for local cruising. It just wouldn't be a help. What would help, as others have pointed out, is reworking the interior to suit 1-2 people. Change the salon table and convert 1 berth into an office, perhaps. No more than 1 head.

Now you bring up a point that might deserve a little attention concerning going larger........
And I'll be the first in line to say I know little about Cats but recently I spoke to a friend who has a 34 foot Cat, and he and his wife are moving up to a 42 foot..
Along with the obvious reasons of having more room, and more speed with waterline,
He mentioned that going to a longer waterline of just 8 feet will increse the comfort of the boat extremely..
Is this a major concern in going to a larger cat.