Large or Small?

[sailorchic34]

For myself,Should I ever find a windfall, perhaps from a long lost uncle in Nigeria, a 45'- 50' boat would be lovely. Though perhaps a bit much to handle in a blow.

But reality for the budget cruiser, they must go small, if they go at all. The maintenance costs on a 10'-15' foot larger boat would be prohibitive on a small budget. The plus side to going small is it does allow one to cruise on a budget with the same sunsets and sandy beaches, the folks on the 50-65' boats enjoy. Though without some luxuries, like A/C or shower stall, water maker, and tons O storage for shoes.

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

The plus side to going small is it does allow one to cruise on a budget with the same sunsets and sandy beaches, the folks on the 50-65' boats enjoy. .

Not really, We pulled out of SF on a Sunday night headed south with another boat of 32 foot length.. sailing in the fog, we were in Cat Harbor on Catalina 3 full days prior to his arrival, and 3 days in the sun while he struggled in the fog.
So in one case, we saw more sunsets and more sandy beaches than our friends in their boat..

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by dohenyboy

for sure happiness is inverse to boat length

Nah!

When we bought our 34 footer 16 years ago, replacing the prior 12 years on our 25 footer and 4 on a 22 footer, I vowed: "I'm gonna disprove this myth of the larger a boat is the less it gets used."

I've been very successful.

[Arthur Garfield]

NornaBiron-curious to read your post-so after time your thinking is bigger boat.May I ask why,other than an understanding of cost control(anchorring out).I am of this thinking also now-I look upon and am more comfortable as my vessel as my home.
As for Dashews and Beowulf or their newer power vessels,but particularly the Beowulf years-they seem to handle her quite effortlessly.Is this just seeing the ease side of things ? Somehow I think not.Skill,familiarity of systems,knowing
anchorages as opposed to quay or marina side over time ads up to larger vessel. more felt as home.

[Hudson Force]

When we were living on and cruising our 33' sloop with our children 7 & 9 we decided they were just going to keep growing and that they deserved some private space, - so did we! So we bought our 41' boat in 1985. In 1998 our youngest child left home and we went shopping for a smaller boat. Everything we looked at would have cost us in the transaction and we knew and loved what we had. We still haven't filled the empty space from having to teenagers move off the boat, but I don't think we will go smaller because we've had this boat for thirty years now and we keep refitting and renewing. We wallow in our forty-one with excess space. I don't know what people could want in a bigger boat, but we moved on to a 30' boat 42 years ago. I think there's much to be said for the life that you are accustomed too.



Nancie expresses joy! That's most important!

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

Not really, We pulled out of SF on a Sunday night headed south with another boat of 32 foot length.. sailing in the fog, we were in Cat Harbor on Catalina 3 full days prior to his arrival, and 3 days in the sun while he struggled in the fog.
So in one case, we saw more sunsets and more sandy beaches than our friends in their boat..

Ah but he was out on a small boat boat and did get there eventually. Cruising is not normally a race.

My boat is a bit of a pig too, unless its going upwind in 30 knots, then it flat out flies at 8.5 knots, fully loaded too.

Besides some folks like fog.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Ah but he was out on a small boat boat and did get there eventually. Cruising is not normally a race. ....................

I'm standing with this,- good judgement on a smaller boat can give you much better outcome than any LWL! Staying where you are a little longer can be just as useful as speed! Given this, I'm not denying that speed can be a useful tool, but it's not the best tool in the box!

[NornaBiron]

Originally Posted by Arthur Garfield

NornaBiron-curious to read your post-so after time your thinking is bigger boat.May I ask why,other than an understanding of cost control(anchorring out).I am of this thinking also now-I look upon and am more comfortable as my vessel as my home.
As for Dashews and Beowulf or their newer power vessels,but particularly the Beowulf years-they seem to handle her quite effortlessly.Is this just seeing the ease side of things ? Somehow I think not.Skill,familiarity of systems,knowing
anchorages as opposed to quay or marina side over time ads up to larger vessel. more felt as home.

We liveaboard fulltime so the boat is our home. We don't like having to be tied to walls or quays and a marina is somewhere for us to leave the boat only if we are not on her. Therefore a bigger boat would give us more tankage and storage space and enable us to stay away from quays for longer.

Norna is 14.6m long, custom steel and is set up with only one permanent sleeping cabin (it is very nice though, and quite big!). We have a huge air cooled engine which takes up a lot of space. These factors have also influenced our thinking on size. Our boat is set up for a couple to manage independently and the accommodation reflects that. I think we'd like the same sort of set up but longer so that we could have a guest cabin, another heads and more fresh water storage.

[Hudson Force]

[QUOTE=NornaBiron;1624747]
......We liveaboard fulltime so the boat is our home. ............
......a bigger boat would give us more tankage ................
......Norna is 14.6m long... with only one permanent sleeping cabin
..... we'd like the same sort of set up but longer so that we could have a guest cabin..... [Quote]

This case of a 14.6m (48') boat not having enough room for a second sleeping cabin exemplifies the layout trend often found in larger boats that I spoke of earlier. This lack of accomodation is not due to a boat being a liveaboard home, though NornaBiron makes a very good point about the larger boat allowing for more tankage & storage. A need for water brings us to a dock after a month away on our smaller boat that, with our children was set up with three sleeping cabins. I watermaker could be purchased for far less than the cost shopping for a boat with an added 10 or 15 feet.

[Randyonr3]

[QUOTE=sailorchic34 Cruising is not normally a race.
.[/QUOTE]

Was wondering when someone would bring up that four letter word "race" when talking smaller vs larger..
oddly enough, its only the smaller boats that call it a race, in a larger boat, its just cruising.
We've always felt that we'd rather have a "fast passage" and stay at sea less.

But we have a little different attitude when it comes to our boat and cruising, as we feel our boat is only a motorhome on the water and able to carry us to new and different places, its the places we visit and the people we meet that give us the best memories and not the trip to get there. for us, the trip is only a formality . having our home where we visit is the plus..

[skipmac]

I may sound like a broken record but the limiting factor for me on boat size is based on the largest sail that 1-2 people can move around the boat. This is usually the main when trying to attach or remove from the mast and boom.

Other than this, with proper winches and such there's really no upper limit on size. In the 1976 Ostar Alain Colas singlehanded the 236' Club Mediterranée.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

(...)

We've always felt that we'd rather have a "fast passage" and stay at sea less.

(...)

You can join one of many plans Moorings etc way and avoid passages completely. 100% cruising / 0% sailing. As good a combo as any. And probably cheaper too in the long run.

b.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Aside from the handling question(s), & ones on budget/upkeep etc., here's the one which I always ponder. Is how small can say a couple, or small family legitimately go & still have room for all of the stores & spares that a true cruiser needs?
You know, spare; warps/anchor rodes, sails, engine parts, tools, cans of paint & epoxy + the consumables which go with them. Also tools, paper chart portfolios & guides... and of course the obvious ones like the pantry, plus spare edible & consumables stores for "just in case" situations, or long stints away from ports where doing a serious restocking is an option.

Back in the day, & even now, on some serious cruising boats, there were/are whole sections of the vessel dedicated to storing such things. That & at minimum, a bit of a work top with a vise, etc. Witness the forepeaks of vessels of 50yrs ago which were entirely dedicated to such things. And such is still the case on some cruisers & expeditioning vessels. Be it the Dashew's, Skip Novak & his vessels, or many others who's names don't come to mind at the moment.

I know when I start designing boats in my head, in lieu of counting sheep, one of the key things which runs through my mind is where will the work shop be. Ditto on a locker for sails & lines. But sails in particular, as it's easy to wind up with half a dozen plus sails to stow. And that's not counting what's stowed 95% of the time on the furler & boom. Let alone Bimini's, Dodgers, the Inflatable...

And yeah, I too wonder about the 45' boats that have the same layout as it's 33' little sister. That extra space around the essentials which are laid out the same seems wasted to me... especially when I could have 10' of dedicated forepeak for storage, with a WT door & crash bulkhead. That, as well as a work shop in the 45' vessel & STILL have more accommodation room than the 33'er if things are/were laid out properly.

I understand that true cruisers are a REAL small percentage of those who buy boats, & thus don't contribute enough coin to make passagemaking designs profitable for most builders/companies. But... it'd be nice if there were more of them available, and not at a super premium price (higher by far than most average production boats).

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

You can join one of many plans Moorings etc way and avoid passages completely. 100% cruising / 0% sailing. As good a combo as any. And probably cheaper too in the long run.

b.

we've talked about that quite a bit in the last few years, and have charted a boat in the northwest instead of taking ours "uphill" again..
If I were to do it all over again, it would be to join a sailing club that had boats in their inventory and charter boats around the world when we wanted.
For us now, if we wanted to sail the med, it would take us at least 6 months to get there from here (west coast-US), the planning, the cost, and everything else to get there.. if chartering, we make a call and drive to the airport, 24 hours later, we're setting onthe deck of a boat in a new country, sucking up cocktails and sunshine.
Belonging to a sailing club, we have a boat at our access, no liveaboard issues, no berthing, no maintence, and only a monthly bill which I'm sure would be far less than my berth rent now..
Yes, If I had it to do over, I believe I would have done it different.. But we are who we are and we love what we are doing for now and have good plans for the future..

[NornaBiron]

We have quite a bit of dedicated storage space: a large forepeak with through deck access which contains anchor chain, deck cushions, warps, spare lines, all the fenders (we had about 18 at last count, don't ask why), fuel for the Cobb cooker etc etc; three custom made deck boxes containing black water tank, washing machine, emergency tiller, wetsuits, fins, snorkels, paint and anything else that will fit; a workshop alongside the large engine space containing the generater, tools, tools and more tools; the usual storage you find on a yacht, behind and under seats, wardrobes x 4 etc etc.

The boat was designed, over 30 years ago, with long, short handed passages in mind. The air cooled engine takes up a huge space as such a large volume of air is required for cooling. If we had the money to re-engine to something more modern and therefore much smaller in size, we could free up enough space for another cabin! However, in our opinion the benefits of the air cooled engine are more than those of a guest cabin! After all, we use the engine on a regular basis and only have visitors infrequently.