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Old 20-01-2014, 12:44   #16
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Re: Large genoa on cutter: what does it mean?

To the OP,

If your plan is to daysail in the Florida area, and not to go far offshore, it will be an easy matter to not sail to windward. I hope Tacoma Sailor was joking when he repeated the old saw, cruisers never go to windward. We have "had to" go to windward many times, once when a cyclone was threatening. IMO, that genoa is there for a reason, to help you efficiently on your way.

If you don't want it--hey, it's your choice. The only thing going slower does that is bad is make you have to leave earlier to arrive in daylight, and on long journeys may leave you exposed to bad weather the faster guys have escaped.

Finally, with our Solent rig, we find that on about a 150 deg. apparent spinnaker reach, the addition of the staysail to the spinnaker and main adds just about a whole knot.

Ann
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Old 20-01-2014, 13:05   #17
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Re: Large genoa on cutter: what does it mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
To the OP,

If your plan is to daysail in the Florida area, and not to go far offshore, it will be an easy matter to not sail to windward.
Ann
I never (ever) daysail, and I guess it depends what you mean by "far offshore," I cross the gulfstream on a regular basis going to the Bahamas, the distance may not be so impressive but the conditions can be. And it seems like I am ALWAYS sailing to windward. I might just have bad luck. pete
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Old 20-01-2014, 13:06   #18
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pirate Re: Large genoa on cutter: what does it mean?

It's important to have something in the 45+ range if this is to be effective....
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I don't know.. handballing and trimming my 130 round with two turns on the winch and the tiller between my knees on a 31 ftr was quite energetic.. no winch handles..
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Old 20-01-2014, 13:17   #19
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Re: Large genoa on cutter: what does it mean?

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
It's important to have something in the 45+ range if this is to be effective....
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I don't know.. handballing and trimming my 130 round with two turns on the winch and the tiller between my knees on a 31 ftr was quite energetic.. no winch handles..
I don't even know why I try to keep up with you!!!

Even if you had a handle.... Single speed winches too I'll bet....
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Old 20-01-2014, 13:30   #20
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pirate Re: Large genoa on cutter: what does it mean?

Forgot to say.. I was 15yrs younger then..
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Old 20-01-2014, 14:15   #21
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Re: Large genoa on cutter: what does it mean?

Ann T Cate said: "I hope Tacoma Sailor was joking when he repeated the old saw, cruisers never go to windward."

I hope you can quote me accurately and not mis-represent what I say. I was describing OUR experience and OUR reason for doing things the way we do.

I said "But - as cruisers we never sail upwind! So - a heavy weather upwind plan is not so important. In four years from Seattle to Acapulco and up and down the Sea of Cortez quite a few times - we only sailed up wind for about 24 hours total. "

I am sure cruisers do sail upwind but we have been very fortunate in almost always having a downwind destination.

Once left La Paz, BCS, Mexico headed for Zihuatenejo - 500+ miles to the SE. The first day out had SE winds so we headed NE to a comfortable island anchorage where we waited a day. The third day was again SE wind so we sailed another 10 miles further N to another island and waited for the NE wind to return so could have a nice easy reach down to Z-town.

Two weeks later we were in Santa Rosalia - 450 miles to the NW 'cause the wind stayed east and NE and it was easier to go to the north Sea of Cortez rather than the south end of the Mexican Riviera.

Just a personal preference!
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Old 20-01-2014, 14:16   #22
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Re: Large genoa on cutter: what does it mean?

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Forgot to say.. I was 15yrs younger then..
It's lovely the way our mind remembers us being.... Oh well... We're not hanging up the watchcap yet!
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Old 20-01-2014, 14:29   #23
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Re: Large genoa on cutter: what does it mean?

I just returned from a shake down sail on my cutter. I have a 140 that I used twice during the shakedown before setting up for the basic sail plan. I liked the larger sail for its speed (a little more than a knot) but for ease single handing and sailing comfort, the basic sail plan worked the best. I like trouble free and easy, getting it around the staysail stay was a bit much.
YMMV

277 NM's a year does not an expert make.
Just saying.
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Old 20-01-2014, 15:03   #24
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Re: Large genoa on cutter: what does it mean?

I do not pretend to be an expert but it seems to me that some folks are describing a staysail rigged sloop rather than a classic cutter. As I understand it the main difference is in the placement of the mainmast which affects the CE.

My boat is a "true" cutter but as I said I am not sure how this affects the original question.

When I first got my boat it had a club footed staysail with one reef point hanked on plus a 130 genny on a roller furler. It was such a pain to tack that 130 that I ended up motoring more than I liked. When the time came to replace it, I bought a high clew 110 yankee. I love it. It tacks with no problems and although I suppose I lose a little speed it is well worth it to me.

The 110 does leave a something to be desired in light air so I bought an asymetrical spinnaker which I use with the ATN tacker. To me it seems like having a large genny.

To those with more knowledge and experience, chime right in, this is only my 2 cents worth.

Rich
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Old 20-01-2014, 15:38   #25
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Re: Large genoa on cutter: what does it mean?

There's no point in flying a large genoa together with a staysail; you'll get no performance benefit. You'd be better off dropping (or furling) the staysail (which would otherwise be only creating drag) and sailing the boat as a sloop. You can then furl the genny partially to reef it down a liitle, but once you need to reef it to the point that it looses its shape beyond acceptable levels, furl it completely and hoist the staysail.

If you want to use a double headed rig, combine the staysail with a high cut yankee on the forestay. Both sails will now set properly with the staysail filling the gap in the fore triangle below the yankee. And when you tack, both sails will blow through without problems.

I prefer a furling jib and a hanked-on staysail, with the tack attached by a short strop. When the weather begins to look a bit iffy you can hank on the storm jib below the staysail 'just in case', together with its own sheets. Then, when you need the storm jib in a hurry you just drop the staysail, swap the halyard over, unhank the staysail and hoist the storm jib. You can find more along these lines at Why the Cutter Rig Sailboat Is My First Choice for Cruising...
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Old 20-01-2014, 15:49   #26
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pirate Re: Large genoa on cutter: what does it mean?

Loved my H37 cutter.. self tacking staysail and furling Yankee..
Sailed like a dream..
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Old 20-01-2014, 16:07   #27
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Re: Large genoa on cutter: what does it mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
Ann T Cate said: "I hope Tacoma Sailor was joking when he repeated the old saw, cruisers never go to windward."

I hope you can quote me accurately and not mis-represent what I say. I was describing OUR experience and OUR reason for doing things the way we do.

I said "But - as cruisers we never sail upwind! So - a heavy weather upwind plan is not so important. In four years from Seattle to Acapulco and up and down the Sea of Cortez quite a few times - we only sailed up wind for about 24 hours total. "

I am sure cruisers do sail upwind but we have been very fortunate in almost always having a downwind destination.

Once left La Paz, BCS, Mexico headed for Zihuatenejo - 500+ miles to the SE. The first day out had SE winds so we headed NE to a comfortable island anchorage where we waited a day. The third day was again SE wind so we sailed another 10 miles further N to another island and waited for the NE wind to return so could have a nice easy reach down to Z-town.

Two weeks later we were in Santa Rosalia - 450 miles to the NW 'cause the wind stayed east and NE and it was easier to go to the north Sea of Cortez rather than the south end of the Mexican Riviera.

Just a personal preference!
So for you, it's more choice. In that where you want to go is upwind, so you change your plans and go somewhere else that's downwind. I think for most people however, the ability to go upwind would be more important as they may not be able to choose a different downwind destination.

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Old 20-01-2014, 16:37   #28
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Re: Large genoa on cutter: what does it mean?

Cruising isn't always day hops or overnighters to the next anchorage or long downwind sleigh rides in the trades. Way back in 1987 we found ourselves in Bora Bora, and running out of money. (I hate it when that happens!) We decided that the fastest way to recoup was to return to San Francisco and our old jobs. Inspection of the pilot charts showed that this was largely an upwind voyage. We might have been able to work out a route that didn't have some 6300 miles of windward sailing, but we didn't see any that looked practical to us (needing to do it fairly quickly if possible being averse to starvation).

We were glad to be sailing a boat that went to windward well (old IOR one-tonner). It wasn't a fun trip, but we got there in the end. And then we had to go back to work... hmmm... maybe if we'd been in a different boat we could have avoided that??

So, I really don't think that cruisers never sail to windward, even if many wish it were so!

Jim
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Old 20-01-2014, 17:09   #29
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Re: Large genoa on cutter: what does it mean?

We have a big genoa and staysail on our Crealock 34 cutter.

98% of the time we use the genoa. It is on a furler and easy. We are lazy. The other 2% time we leave the genoa furled and use a hanked staysail or storm jib bring the power of the sails closer to the center. This makes the boat much easier to handle in heavier conditions.

It's worth it's weight in gold.


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Old 20-01-2014, 17:19   #30
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Re: Large genoa on cutter: what does it mean?

many a cutter rig is used as a sloop until the wind pipes up. Thus the bigger headsail. I like a 110-120 headsail myself.... but it's very much about how you travel. Less than 4+ knots and the iron reacher is on for me.
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