Ladders, swim platforms, and boarding the dink

[Jammer]

Many of us have the strength, coordination, and balance to board a boat in fairly heavy seas with nothing but a rope ladder. For any crew who may be less coordinated, less confident, not quite HWP, or perhaps less strong, how do you make the transitions between the dink and the mother ship easier?


Do you have a ladder amidships to take advantage of the reduced vertical motion of the boat there? How do you attach it and stow it?


Do you have a swim platform? Is it permanently affixed in place or can it be folded or removed for passage? Does it help with boarding the dink, or does it make matters worse?



Do you have any particular means of holding the dinghy in place while boarding it, or do you just use whatever cleats the mother ship already has for other purposes?


Do you have a gate in the lifelines for boarding the dink? If not, do you climb over them or release them entirely?


Have you added any handholds or steps (other than the ladder itself) to either the mother ship or the dink?

[JPA Cate]

Hi, Jammer,

I'll play Q & A with you.

Do you have a ladder amidships to take advantage of the reduced vertical motion of the boat there? How do you attach it and stow it? Not a ladder, but one step, mounted securely from the toe rail. It is an easy step from the dinghy to the step (plywood, with nonskid, big enough for both feet, with shoes on). The lines that support it have reefing hooks, that go through our perforated toe rail.


Do you have a swim platform? Is it permanently affixed in place or can it be folded or removed for passage? Does it help with boarding the dink, or does it make matters worse? The boat has a sugar scoop stern with a boarding ladder. We can board there most of the time.



Do you have any particular means of holding the dinghy in place while boarding it, or do you just use whatever cleats the mother ship already has for other purposes? Our dinghy has two painters (one shorter, and floating line and a much longer one), and two stern lines. If boarding amidships, we use the shorter painter to a forward cleat, and put the stern line on (we tie it this way to put the o/b on and take it off, by halyard). If boarding from astern, we generally bring the dinghy alongside, and board over the side of the sugar scoop, holding on to the pushpit rail. If doing it alone, I usually tie to the stern cleat and start the o/b, before turning loose of the big boat.


Do you have a gate in the lifelines for boarding the dink? If not, do you climb over them or release them entirely? Yes. Usually tie to the midships cleat if using the gate; however, we generally use the scoop. All our supplies come aboard back there, dinghy to transom hatches, then through cockpit to below. [The sugar scoop is also where we "land" fish, keeps the blood and gurry out of the cockpit.]


Have you added any handholds or steps (other than the ladder itself) to either the mother ship or the dink? We have added a man rope at the stern, so that if you are coming aboard from the water, that assistance is available.

You'll notice that the details of the boat itself have had a lot to do with our practices. On our previous boats, we entered over the lifelines, and still do that if we're climbing up at the shrouds. One would have to find another way to mount a step like ours, without the perforated toe rail. Having a gate also means a way to bring someone incapacitated for climbing out on board without having to go over the lifelines, using a halyard to do the lifting.

Ann

[Tayana42]

Jammer,
Yes I have a stainless steel ladder that attaches amidship on port or starboard. It hooks into brackets bolted to the deck. I also tie it to the toe rail. Mine extends well below the waterline so climbing out of the water is easy. I have no swim platform.

Painters fore and aft hold the dinghy in place for boarding. I tie to cleats, the toe rail or stanchion bases as needed.

My lifelines have boarding gates on both sides amidships.

My ladder rails extend above the deck then curve down to the deck brackets. That allows a good handhold as you begin your climb.

[a64pilot]

We have a fender step, like these
https://www.force4.co.uk/department/...ers-steps.html
Ours is the three step model, we got it at West Marine, all we need is the two step though, the three is long enough that it gets between the dinghy and the boat.

I want a ladder though, one that is long enough so that two or three rungs are under water so boarding with dive gear would be possible.

We initially got on and off the boat from the stern using the ladder, but that is a bad idea, too tall, and too much boat movement, much better amidship.
We have a gate midship both sides, and when I had the lifeline replaced I had the bow ones made so they can be released as gates as well.

[Jammer]

Thank you all. My present boat has a flat transom, to which I have added a 3-step swim ladder. I myself find that quite sufficient in all kinds of conditions, but guests and crew do not agree. My boat is really too small for a proper dinghy so I have to use my imagination.


Another question for you. What is the worst sea state in which you consider it important to be able to board a dinghy? I am remembering some scuba diving charters where I returned to the boat in 3' seas, and while I had no real difficulty clambering aboard, I am not sure I would want to be in a dink in those conditions. Trying to get a sense of perspective.

[billknny]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Many of us have the strength, coordination, and balance to board a boat in fairly heavy seas with nothing but a rope ladder. For any crew who may be less coordinated, less confident, not quite HWP, or perhaps less strong, how do you make the transitions between the dink and the mother ship easier?

I would bet that the number of people who THINK they can board a boat from a rope ladder is far larger than the number who actually CAN. Unless you have tried, don't count on it.

If you are in the water, a rope ladder slides down under the hull when you put your feet on it, and basically you have to haul yourself up hand over hand. Once you start to get out of the water, the steps are tight against the hull, leaving you nothing to grab with fingers, and only the tiniest little toe grip. I find climbing a typical rope ladder out of a dinghy to be very difficult, and almost impossible with bare feet.

I worked for a large sailing school, and when we did some testing of ways to get an MOB back into the boat the rope ladder turned out to be an extremely unreliable technique for most people unskilled in the art.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Thank you all. My present boat has a flat transom, to which I have added a 3-step swim ladder. I myself find that quite sufficient in all kinds of conditions, but guests and crew do not agree. My boat is really too small for a proper dinghy so I have to use my imagination. Perhaps add a manrope from up the backstay, for people to help haul themselves up? However, you really need to start thinking seriously about retrieving a person from the water, especially some one unconscious or exhausted.....


Another question for you. What is the worst sea state in which you consider it important to be able to board a dinghy? I am remembering some scuba diving charters where I returned to the boat in 3' seas, and while I had no real difficulty clambering aboard, I am not sure I would want to be in a dink in those conditions. Trying to get a sense of perspective.

We don't generally go out in the dinghy over 20 kn. This is usually about 2 to 2-1/2 ft, and it is a bit exciting. We often stand, to minimize wetting, holding onto the short painter for greater stability. But, ours is a large dinghy, an aluminum hulled RIB of 3.4 m. length (about 11 ft.) and with a 15 horse o/b. In an anchorage, that requires boarding it from the shrouds, using the step, or having it crosswise of the stern, in the lee of the boat. Not really applicable to your boat. That much wind is not at all pleasant in the dinghy, you'd be prepared to be soaked.

However, a note. If you often sail with someone who is built to a smaller scale than you, you need to take care of that person (or persons) by scaling stuff so they, too, can use *it* comfortably, whatever the it of the moment is.

Ann

[Jammer]

Thank you all for the replies.


For clarity, I'm thinking ahead to a larger boat with these questions, and trying to inform my thought process. There are 40' cruising sailboats here in reasonable numbers but most towns on the river have courtesy slips -- free for day use -- that will accommodate them, so dinghies are rarely used and not a big part of the boating culture.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

However, a note. If you often sail with someone who is built to a smaller scale than you, you need to take care of that person (or persons) by scaling stuff so they, too, can use *it* comfortably, whatever the it of the moment is.

Indeed. In my situation, not so much scale but upper body strength and balance.


She's gone snorkeling from commercial boats, and we did a kayak tour once on a commercial tour that used a historic 65' schooner, so I know she's capable of getting in and out of the boat. We just have to figure out the right accommodations.

[a64pilot]

Our issue isn’t getting in and out, it’s when the wind and waves are high enough to be a concern for boarding, it’s going to be a wet ride, so we stay aboard. Cause I don’t want to be soaked.
We have a 10’6” AB with a 20 hp

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by billknny

I would bet that the number of people who THINK they can board a boat from a rope ladder is far larger than the number who actually CAN. Unless you have tried, don't count on it.

I've done it. As you point out, a rope ladder is neither a ladder nor a staircase. I see them as more of a climbing aid. I have a rope ladder and outrigger for one of my canoes, and use it for scuba diving in some local waters that aren't accessible any other way. I have one on my sailboat too, but usually use a folding and telescoping ladder that I put on the transom.

[Tayana42]

Jammer, as far as rope ladders are concerned I’ll relate a story that led to my upgrading to a solid stainless ladder. We had our current boat for a couple of years. We never had a problem stepping up from our dinghy using the substantial rub rail as a step.

One cool fall day we came across an overturned and inoperable pwc with a father and two preteen children in the water. Fortunately, they did have life jackets on. We hove to, idled the engine out of gear and deployed our rope ladder. Neither of the slightly overweight children could pull themselves up the ladder after multiple attempts. With great difficulty the two of us we were able to man handle them up our high topsides. If we hadn’t been able to pull them in we would have had to rig our LifeSling and hoist them up and in. We gave them blankets and hot tea. The father refused to try the rope ladder and clung to the overturned rental pwc for another 15 minutes until the harbor patrol rescue boat we called on the vhf arrived. Hank goodness this was in coastal water not far from a harbor.

This incident demonstrated to us how difficult it is for average people to climb from the water with a rope ladder. That week we bought and installed the stainless ladder. We selected one that has two steps below the waterline so stepping up onto it would not be a problem even for someone less fit than ourselves.

We have since then had a few occasions to rescue someone from out of the water and many times we and our guests swim from the boat. The solid ladder is a great convenience for getting in and out of the dinghy but it is a lifesaver when getting someone aboard from the water.