Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 28-03-2016, 10:03   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Darlington, WI
Boat: Macgregor 26S
Posts: 57
Images: 2
Killing invasive species?

I have a Macgregor 26S with a 150 gallon ballast tank. I want to be sure that I can kill critters (mussels, etc.) with KCL (Potassium Chloride). The published spec says I need 2 ppm solution to be effective. To do his I would need 75 teaspoons of powdered KCL to add to the tank. Can anyone tell me where I can get a liquid concentrate to add to the tank and how much to use?
__________________

__________________
Jhhastie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2016, 10:52   #2
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,032
Re: Killing invasive species?

Surely a gallon of store brand cheap bleach would do the trick?
I'm going to guess way less than a gallon actually.

1 tablespoon of bleach per 100 gl of water, will give you 2 PPM of chlorine from what I get
http://healthvermont.gov/enviro/water/disinfect.aspx

Table of Chlorine Dosages (provides 2 parts per million chlorine)
Water Volume Liquid Bleach (common household chlorine bleach)
1 gallon 5 drops
10 gallons 1/2 teaspoon
50 gallons 2 teaspoons
100 gallons 1 tablespoon
500 gallons 5 tablespoons
1,000 gallons 3/4 cup
__________________

__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2016, 22:05   #3
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,666
Re: Killing invasive species?

A64pilot,

The OP's talking about getting rid of biota like zebra mussels in his ballast tanks, where they shift the weight to help trim the boat when it's heeled.

Do you know if chlorine works on them, too? I know it's great against giardia and amoebas.

Ann

PS. When I saw the title for the thread, I was asking myself "is there a more invasive species than mankind?" Glad to see it was about something else!

Good luck with your search, Jhhastie.
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2016, 22:49   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: Samson C Mist 32
Posts: 484
Re: Killing invasive species?

Recently retired water system operator here... Chlorine bleach kills giardia, but not as quickly as it kills bacteria. Cryptosporidium takes a lot longer.
__________________
Steve Bean is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2016, 23:02   #5
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,310
Re: Killing invasive species?

From Texas Parks & Wildlife Department

If it is not possible to clean the internal systems or compartments using 140-degree water, the use of either straight vinegar or a chlorine bleach and water solution (one-half ounce bleach to one gallon water) can be effective at killing zebra mussels as long as the mixture is kept in contact with the mussels for 20 to 30 minutes. Clean water should be used to flush the chemicals and dead mussels from the boat following treatment. Boat owners should check with their manufacturer to be sure using these chemicals will not void their warranty.
__________________
donradcliffe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2016, 23:29   #6
Registered User
 
Dsanduril's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: South Pacific
Boat: Outremer 50S
Posts: 1,451
Re: Killing invasive species?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhhastie View Post
I have a Macgregor 26S with a 150 gallon ballast tank. I want to be sure that I can kill critters (mussels, etc.) with KCL (Potassium Chloride). The published spec says I need 2 ppm solution to be effective. To do his I would need 75 teaspoons of powdered KCL to add to the tank. Can anyone tell me where I can get a liquid concentrate to add to the tank and how much to use?
Don't know your source for the 2ppm, but are you sure your math is correct?

150 gallons * 8.35 lbs/gallon = 1250 pounds.

1250 * 2 e-6 = 0.0025 lbs KCl = 1.14 grams KCL to reach 2 ppm (if you are trying to reach 2 ppm K+ then you need about twice that).

KCl density = 1.98 g/cm3, so even if you need 2 ppm of K+ you still only need about 1 gram of KCl to get there. And that should be well less than a teaspoon.

Then again, are you sure KCl at 2 ppm has the desired biocide effect? Seems like 50 ppm of K+ is a more common value. Still would only take 50 grams or so, which is about 10 teaspoons.
__________________
Dsanduril is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2016, 07:04   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 94
Killing invasive species?

fwiw, we always used pool chlorine tablets in marina bags to eliminate growth
__________________
packeteer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2016, 08:07   #8
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,032
Re: Killing invasive species?

Chlorine in a high enough concentration will kill almost anything, I'd say everything, but I bet there is something out there that grows in it, I was shocked years ago when I found that algae would grow in Diesel fuel.
Potassium Hypochlorite is I think pool Chlorine, and Sodium Hypochrorite bleach, either will work as well as the other, I butchered the spelling I'm sure.
Me, I'd toss a quart in for the weekend and I'm sure that would kill everything, probably way more than you need, but it's cheap and I don't think it would hurt the tanks, maybe check on the valve I don't know what they are made from


Years ago my father would buy cases of scent free store brand bleach when it went on sale, he said the pool chlorine being calcium would build up crystals on the pool plaster and that was tough on kids feet, but bleach was sodium and would not.
Seemed to work.
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2016, 09:26   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Darlington, WI
Boat: Macgregor 26S
Posts: 57
Images: 2
Re: Killing invasive species?

Folks- Here is my reference:

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE....876.pdf‎

I have 2 concerns-

1. Would chlorine hurt my internal tank fiberglass over time.

2. When I drain my tank, KCL won't harm the water, chlorine will.

More thoughts?
__________________
Jhhastie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2016, 09:32   #10
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Killing invasive species?

A64 has it it imho.

Try half a cup normal bleach and leave it in a day or 2, or when u fill the tank if tbats the way u ballast.

Sent from a stupid phone that replaces words with weird stuff.
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2016, 09:50   #11
Registered User
 
Dsanduril's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: South Pacific
Boat: Outremer 50S
Posts: 1,451
Re: Killing invasive species?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
A64 has it it imho.

Try half a cup normal bleach and leave it in a day or 2, or when u fill the tank if tbats the way u ballast.

Sent from a stupid phone that replaces words with weird stuff.
Depends on the purpose. The OP specifically mentioned mussels, and potassium, rather than chlorine is the preferred molluscicide. Potassium in very low concentrations is deadly to most invasive mollusks, while being the least deadly to other species when dumped overboard. Chlorine is a more general biocide, and will likely give you good action against mollusks, but can be harmful in small doses to the freshwater fish whose habitat is being protected.

As to fiberglass tanks and chemical compatibility, neither KCl nor HOCl-, at the proposed concentrations, will cause any long-term harm to a fiberglass tank. In industry fiberglass materials are frequently used to handle these chemicals specifically because they are more resistant to corrosive effects than most other options.
__________________
Dsanduril is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2016, 10:02   #12
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,032
Re: Killing invasive species?

A cup or so of bleach is what I believe some people use in their wash, that is then dumped into the lake?
I also believe that Chlorine gasses off, meaning for lack of a better term, it goes away, because it "goes away" you have to keep adding it to pools.
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2016, 10:11   #13
Registered User
 
Dsanduril's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: South Pacific
Boat: Outremer 50S
Posts: 1,451
Re: Killing invasive species?

Chlorine is very deadly to fish, at concentrations as low as 0.25 ppm. Take a dropper of bleach and put it in your aquarium and see what happens (PETA might come after you).

If you think chlorine will kill everything in your tank, how can you then think that it is not harmful outside your tank? Dilution is the solution to pollution? Chlorine doesn't tend to "gas off", it tends to react with organic matter (a fish's gills, for instance). In the end it breaks down to chloride ion (which along with sodium makes up salt), hydrogen and oxygen. None of those are generally harmful (although too much chloride can be), but the breakdown process is extremely harmful even at low concentrations. Which is why we use it as a general disinfectant and biocide.

If the OP it targeting a specific specifies then it makes much more sense to use a targeted biocide rather than a general purpose one.
__________________

__________________
Dsanduril is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Invasive popup at bottom of screen cat man do Forum Tech Support & Site Help 16 17-02-2013 16:55
EPA approves product for controlling invasive mussels Soundbounder General Sailing Forum 0 13-03-2012 08:56
Books of Marine Species Camelot The Library 5 22-10-2010 03:01
Dangerous marine species around the world Whimsical Fishing, Recreation & Fun 4 20-08-2008 07:54
Invasive species? knottybuoyz Great Lakes 9 25-05-2007 02:12



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:27.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.