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Old 04-03-2010, 20:28   #91
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Here, I'll do it for you...
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Old 04-03-2010, 20:33   #92
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Triatic = oscillating tuning fork to be engaged anytime the wind creeps above 20 and the temperature drops below 40F.
Although without one the mizzen would likely topple backwards while beating and trying to flatten out the sail.
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Old 04-03-2010, 20:45   #93
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OHHHH thank you Christian!
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Old 04-03-2010, 21:08   #94
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She's a looker, Cyndi!
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Old 04-03-2010, 21:19   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
Triatic = oscillating tuning fork to be engaged anytime the wind creeps above 20 and the temperature drops below 40F.
Although without one the mizzen would likely topple backwards while beating and trying to flatten out the sail.
I hope not..

So let me ask another question to the high authority's here...

I have runners on my mizzen...are they for running for or aft then, as conditions warrant?
They are from the aft end of the mast head truck not from tangs lower on the side so i never thought so..
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Old 04-03-2010, 21:52   #96
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I have runners on my mizzen...are they for running for or aft then, as conditions warrant?
They are from the aft end of the mast head truck not from tangs lower on the side so i never thought so..
Tell me about your mizzen speaders (swept aft or not... how many degrees?) and how the mizzen is stayed (forestays, backstay etc.)

As your runners go to the masthead, they are probably used for mast support in down wind sails and sailtrim. I have that setup on main & mizzen but I have no backstays on my masts.

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 04-03-2010, 22:17   #97
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we have them on the Shannon, running backs for the mizzen, i use them all the time when the mizzen is up[ nearly all the time]. esp w the mizzen staysail the opposite one is set as hard as i can.
S/V Jedi: in "Ocean Sailing Racing, on pg 46 or 48 is a statement about a mizzen genoa, "Flyers secret weapon" ever seen one?
thanks all and thanks to Jedi for the wonderful photos.
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Old 04-03-2010, 22:55   #98
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Tell me about your mizzen speaders (swept aft or not... how many degrees?) and how the mizzen is stayed (forestays, backstay etc.)

As your runners go to the masthead, they are probably used for mast support in down wind sails and sailtrim. I have that setup on main & mizzen but I have no backstays on my masts.

cheers,
Nick.
Main mast split back stay with runners as well.

Mizzen for and aft lowers with runners as well.

I don't really have a good picture ..but here is what I have...My running backs attach to the very over kill built davits about a foot aft of the bends..you can see the port side tackle at the edge of the picture and if you look close you can see ths tab where the starboard one hooks in.
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Old 04-03-2010, 23:36   #99
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Okay, I checked some photo's on yacht world. Basically, you must always set the windward runner. In addition to that, when sailing upwind in 20 knots or more, I would reef the mizzen down a lot, like with the headboard at the spreaders, so that the forward lowers are enough fwd support. You should also look out for too much vang tension with full mizzen for the same reason.

As I see it now, they did away with the triatic stay without putting something back for supporting the upper end of the mizzen. I would keep a close eye on the forward lowers too. I found that on Jedi (we have 2 sets of spreaders on the mizzen and my forward stays attach at the upper spreader) they are too small in diameter. I will upgrade them.
We support the upper section of the mizzen with a forward pointing spreader but that is more difficult for you because where would you put it (at the upper spreaders but you don't have those). So I would take it easy with the mizzen for upwind sailing and probably increase the wire for the forward lowers one size when they are due for replacement.
Always set the runners.

cheers,
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Old 04-03-2010, 23:56   #100
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Okay one more picture for verification...you can see how high the forward lower are attached ...well above the spreaders but sill the forward sweep cant be more then 4' from the base of the mast...the spreaders have no for or aft sweep by the way.

Thanks Jedi.
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Old 05-03-2010, 00:05   #101
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Ah, that's much clearer. No, those aren't forward lowers, you can consider it as a fractional rig with two head stays.
With 4' between their chainplates and the base of the mast, the angle is a bit nasty. That is why they should be plenty strong. I would take the diameter of the shrouds as a baseline: aft lowers should be the same size as shrouds but because your spreaders are straight you can probably get away with one size smaller. The headstays one size smaller than the shrouds. I'm almost sure they will be smaller now. The runners I would replace them with Samson Amsteel Blue 3/8" to save some weight up there and they will allow you to gybe the mizzen into the backstays on purpose to dampen the shock.

cheers,
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Old 05-03-2010, 00:14   #102
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Ah, that's much clearer. No, those aren't forward lowers, you can consider it as a fractional rig with two head stays.
With 4' between their chainplates and the base of the mast, the angle is a bit nasty. That is why they should be plenty strong. I would take the diameter of the shrouds as a baseline: aft lowers should be the same size as shrouds but because your spreaders are straight you can probably get away with one size smaller. The headstays one size smaller than the shrouds. I'm almost sure they will be smaller now. The runners I would replace them with Samson Amsteel Blue 3/8" to save some weight up there and they will allow you to gybe the mizzen into the backstays on purpose to dampen the shock.

cheers,
Nick.
Will do...Thanks again.
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:36   #103
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In stormy conditions... the ketch.. choice depends how much time one spends in a LOT of wind.. otherwise its like comparing apples and pears. Most modern sloops are **** in breeze (above 45 knts).. like REAL ****..
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Old 08-03-2010, 08:53   #104
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Really? Exactly what do you base that on ?
And considering that winds are less than 15 knots MOST of the time, I would want to design/build/buy a boat that can handle that more than >45 knots which you might see only a fraction of the time.
And if you would be off a lee shore, I would put my money and my life on a sloop or cutter getting off it better than a ketch, unless your talking LWL of >45' or more.
The fact is that dropping the main is easy, but that don't mean its necessarily a better way to do it.
But when the boat gets big, splitting the rig can make it a easier boat to handle.
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Old 08-03-2010, 10:28   #105
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Love the ketch

My wife and I have been cruising our Mason 63 for five years and since we spend 98% of the time with just the two of us I really feel that the ketch rig offers us many advantages. Balancing the boat on long tacks is relatively easy and yes you can actually steer the boat using the mizzen. We lost our hydraulic steering off Monterey and had to sail about 100 miles to get in close enough to get towed in. We actually made it into Monterey Bay about 2 miles from our destination before getting a tow. We don't use the mizzen staysail much but use the different combinations of jib, staysail, main and mizzen to balance the boat in various conditions. Keeping the boat manageable in heavy weather is paramount when it's just the two of us. We like the center cockpit for several reasons. Pulling into a berth which for us is generally an endtie with another boat on it seems easier due to the better visuals fore and aft. We have put about 15,000 miles on 10 Forward in five years and we don't stop during the Ca winters. Having the fully enclosed center cockpit lends itself to comfortable (warm and dry) transits up and down the coast. I think if we were weekending it and or racing the simplicity of a single mast would be fun though. That's my two cents!
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