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Old 13-03-2011, 13:11   #16
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Re: Ketch Rig . . . Why ?

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
The Pearson 35 is a Yawl, not a ketch. The yawl rig was popular when the P35's were first built because it was untaxed sail area under the CCA racing rule in use in the late '60s. The mast height for the Yawl and the Ketch in the P35 were both the same at around 40' so no advantage in getting under bridges for the Yawl and most of the other builders CCA Yawls. The designers of these boats mostly shortened the main boom just enough to hang the mizzen mast at the end of the boat but kept the same mast height. A pretty rig but the mizzen masts are a staying problem mounted so far aft for many of these designs. These boats were sailed as sloop until they were far enough off the wind for the small yawl mizzen to have some benefit and the very limited points of sail the mizzen staysail can be flown.

In todays world, a split rig really doesn't make much sense till a boat is well into 40' range. In the old days of cotton sails made heavier by soaked up water, smaller boats had some need of the smaller individual sails but with dacron and the ultral light composite sail material, individual sail weight and contolability doesn't make sense for boats under 40' or so. Bridge heights for boats of this length typically aren't a problem.
Different boat... I was talking about the Pearson "365", and it is a "ketch". (The mizzen mast is mounted fwd of the wheel and rudder axis) M.
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Old 13-03-2011, 13:14   #17
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Re: Ketch Rig . . . Why ?

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder because to me, for pure looks, the schooner rig is the most pleasing.
On a larger boat, I think most folks would agree! M.
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Old 13-03-2011, 13:18   #18
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Re: Ketch Rig . . . Why ?

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Originally Posted by bdurham View Post
somebody tell me what is so amazing about ketch rigged sailboats?
There is nothing so amazing.

A boat is a boat is a boat. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I like'em and would gladly own one. Especially when I think of a bigger boat where a sloop would have sails too big for me to handle.

There is an Endurance ketch on the neighbouring dock and I often see her sailing on the harbour. Very pretty.

Then there is the Mari Cha. Very pretty too.

b.
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Old 13-03-2011, 13:25   #19
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Re: Ketch Rig . . . Why ?

So true... beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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Old 13-03-2011, 13:34   #20
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I've noticed that schooners, ketches and yawls all look better at a distance, especially through a good pair of 7x50 binoculars.
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Old 13-03-2011, 13:44   #21
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Re: Ketch Rig . . . Why ?

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I've noticed that schooners, ketches and yawls all look better at a distance, especially through a good pair of 7x50 binoculars.
True. I think it's because from a distance, they don't look like a cruising boat... they look like a "ship" from a bygone era, when men were men...

M.
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Old 13-03-2011, 14:40   #22
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Re: Ketch Rig . . . Why ?

I've no argument with the sloop's superiority on a race course with a well-muscled young racing crew.

But that's not a comparison for cruisers. Consider a typical moderately heavy, moderate SA/D (say 16-17) cruising boat of about 45ft with average roller furler headstay sag, cruising sails (not laminate), rail mounted genoa tracks, and a 50 year old couple crew. In my experience, that boat will have a faster passage (read better average day's run) rigged as a ketch than a sloop. This is mostly because relatively little time is spent hard on the wind when cruising and the crew will also feel comfortable carrying more sail on the ketch - especially at night. By example, I will carry a mizzen staysail all night but never a spinnaker.

Carl
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Old 13-03-2011, 14:51   #23
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pirate Re: Ketch Rig . . . Why ?

Buga the awning... its ma hammock thats important
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Old 13-03-2011, 15:10   #24
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Re: Ketch Rig . . . Why ?

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Originally Posted by bdurham View Post
somebody tell me what is so amazing about ketch rigged sailboats?
WHY?

Why not?

They are so damn sexy and strike an awsome pose
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Old 13-03-2011, 15:24   #25
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pirate Re: Ketch Rig . . . Why ?

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Originally Posted by anjou View Post
WHY?

Why not?

They are so damn sexy and strike an awsome pose
Rock On Anjou...
Are there not some Dumb Questions sometimes...
Nothing personal mate... a general observation.. maybe just the phrasing...lol
Ketch rig...
Smaller, easier to handle short handed... more combiations for different weather..
Why 2 wheel.. 4 wheel drives... Hackers and cruisers...
One has go faster stripes... the other just looks cool...
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Old 13-03-2011, 15:38   #26
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Re: Ketch Rig . . . Why ?

You can strike the main without loosing helm balance. Dave
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Old 15-03-2011, 17:03   #27
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Re: ketch rig....WHY?

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
is there meant to be something amazing?

just askin' as I've got a ketch rig and only have the usual mixed bag of plusses & minuses that apply to most rigs. and most other boat things.

Something amazing would be nice to have

come on even I who never sailed know a ketch has amazing hamack posibilities
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Old 15-03-2011, 17:43   #28
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Re: Ketch Rig . . . Why ?

The more time I spend on my ketch the better I like the rig. It has lots of benefits, some practical and others less so.

Ketches are pretty rare in new boats these days but they were very common in Mexican cruising anchorages. Probably made up a solid 25% of the cruising fleet. That disproportionately high number suggests that others agree they are pretty useful.

My short list of benefits:
  • pretty - as stated by many others
  • very easily balanced sailplan - this kept my autopilot from working too hard
  • mizzen and head sail combo is very handy for various situations. I often sail mine with a jib (or gennaker) and mizzen:
    • when you want low crew workload - It's much easier to handle at night, since there's no need to go forward and reef (I have slab reefing on the main).
    • big sloppy seas and heavier wind - dropping the main gives zero danger of the main boom coming across in an unintended gybe. I use a port and starboard set of sheets on my mizzen boom so it is automatically prevented.
  • mizzen mast is handy for:
    • radar dome placement
    • extra mast top antennas (wifi, cell booster, etc)
    • hanging a hammock on deck
    • holding up deck awnings
    • having extra halyard(s) further aft for lifting things
It's true that they don't point as high as a sloop. I have been curious to see any actual data showing just how big a difference there is. There were some Pearsons made that were the same boat but with one a sloop and the other a ketch (Pearson 422 & 424 if I'm not mistaken). Anybody have a set of polar diagrams for a matching set of boats like that?

There are workarounds for a sloop to gain much of the above benefits, but they are easy in a ketch.

I have not noticed an significant difference in rig related maintance or cost with my ketch as opposed to my prior sloop. Obviously a full rig replacement would be more expensive with the ketch, but on-going mainentance isn't a big deal. Replacing standing rigging is pretty cheap (by boat standards anyway) so an extra $500 to a $1000 to replace the mizzen's rigging is worth all the above noted benefits to me.

Boats are all compromises, but a ketch strikes a fine balance!

Craig
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Old 15-03-2011, 19:19   #29
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Re: Ketch Rig . . . Why ?

Mizzen also good for a windgen on top where it is absolutely out of the way.

Also, I beleive, that in a hard gust of wind, there is less of a chance of a near knockdown as the ketch rig is lower.
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Old 17-03-2011, 12:20   #30
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Re: Ketch Rig . . . Why ?

Ketch rigging is good for bigger cruising boats as it allows for better control and smoother rides in rough water. Basically the more sail options one has, the more control you have over any given wind situation, not unlike adding a tri-sail or stay sail to a sloop or cutter. Most ketches have a huge combination of reefing points to adjust to conditions, unlike many modern in mast furlers. Squat and low ketches may not be fast, but they sure are smooth and elegant.
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