Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-08-2013, 09:04   #16
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,762
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Ketch Rig

i was raised sailing sloop of antique origins...awesome boat...and i owned sloops until i bought this ketch. i will not return to sloops even tho i sailed gom in a sloop, i will not own another
i also sailed a cutter.
i prefer ketch to both of those choices. enjoy and have fun.
__________________

zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 09:12   #17
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,373
Re: Ketch Rig

Don't understand your comment that ketches are roomy? The space below is determined by length and beam and nothing to do with rig. For example the Pearson 42 range (424 and 422) were sold with sloop, ketch or cutter rig. The boat otherwise was identical.

Maybe you are just looking at boats that are large and beamy that happen to have a ketch rig?

I have made passages on sloops and ketches and I chose a cutter as my preferred rig.

There are probably a couple of dozen previous threads on this forum alone that compare the various rigs. All have advantages and disadvantages. If you search CF you can find a few hours worth of reading on the subject.
__________________

__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 09:33   #18
Registered User
 
markpierce's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: M/V Carquinez Coot
Posts: 3,413
Re: Ketch Rig

Ketches have lots of eye-appeal.



Especially when compared to sloops.

__________________
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 09:47   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Live on boat
Boat: Spencer 1330 44' Ketch
Posts: 12
Re: Ketch Rig

Use your intuition and chose the boat that you like, and you will be happy. It is sort of like choosing a wife, except if the boat does not work out, it is easier to change.
I had several sloops, and am now a happy ketch sailor.
__________________
Horizon Watcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 09:55   #20
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,441
Re: Ketch Rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Ketches have lots of eye-appeal.



Especially when compared to sloops.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

A real life consideration is that the mizzen makes the installation of a useful solar array more difficult, as well as interfering (in some cases) with a wind vane steering setup. Both of these issues influence serious cruisers more than day/weekend sailors, and neither is insuperable ... but they can be a PITA to deal with.

Cheers,

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 10:37   #21
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,373
Re: Ketch Rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...


And I would add that it depends on the overall boat as well. I would bet even the most ardent lover of ketches would think this is a lovely boat.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Ranger.jpg
Views:	122
Size:	28.3 KB
ID:	65696   Click image for larger version

Name:	ranger-yacht.jpg
Views:	231
Size:	341.9 KB
ID:	65697  

__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 11:44   #22
Registered User
 
Capt Phil's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stateline NV
Boat: Prior boats: Transpac 49; DeFever 54
Posts: 2,749
Re: Ketch Rig

Having sailed and owned nearly every rig except a barquantine (square rigged), the ketch was by far my favorite for several of reasons, not the least of which is smaller sail area per sail for easier short handed or single handed sailing. Better balance underway, less weather helm. At anchor when the sloops or marconi rigs are worming around their anchor rode, setting a mizzen with one or two tucks in hold you comfortably and quietly against your rode with virtually no swing. Esthetically, I just like the cut of them. Phil
__________________
Capt Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 12:04   #23
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,373
Re: Ketch Rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Phil View Post
Having sailed and owned nearly every rig except a barquantine (square rigged) Phil
I never sailed a barquentine either. Also never sailed a yawl or schooner but sailed several ketches, sloops and cutters.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Phil View Post
smaller sail area per sail for easier short handed or single handed sailing.
Certainly sail size is a limiting factor for me as I often sail short handed but until I get a little older sail size on a sloop or cutter up to mid forties in length has not yet become a problem.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Phil View Post
Better balance underway, less weather helm.
I would say this is more a factor of proper design and sail trim rather than an inherent characteristic of one rig or the other. I had a ketch with a good bit of weather helm and a sloop that I could steer with two fingers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Phil View Post
At anchor when the sloops or marconi rigs are worming around their anchor rode, setting a mizzen with one or two tucks in hold you comfortably and quietly against your rode with virtually no swing.
My current boat, a cutter rig, sits dead to wind at anchor and doesn't sail at all. No need to rig any sort of riding sail.

Of course for the same size boat or same sail area a ketch will have smaller, easier to handle sails and lower mast height to fit under bridges. Plus the ability to quickly drop the main and sail well balanced under jib and mizzen in a blow is great. For me, sailing from FL where everywhere is upwind I like a boat that sails a little better close hauled than the typical ketch rig so prefer the sloop or cutter for this.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 12:36   #24
Registered User
 
markpierce's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: M/V Carquinez Coot
Posts: 3,413
Re: Ketch Rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Phil View Post
Having sailed and owned nearly every rig except a barquantine (square rigged), ...
Ever sail a brig?



(Too bad the ship hasn't hoisted over half its sails.)
__________________
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 12:39   #25
Registered User
 
Capt Phil's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stateline NV
Boat: Prior boats: Transpac 49; DeFever 54
Posts: 2,749
Re: Ketch Rig

Excellent points, skipmac... never considered the masthead height because haven't sailed in bridge covered water for many years.
As far as balance goes, I found it easier to balance a ketch rig than a cutter or sloop rig because you had more options on just about every point of sail except closehauled. I certainly agree that you can point higher with a sloop or cutter but I always enjoyed the ride a ketch gave more than other rigs. Was rarely in a hurry to get anywhere.
I delivered a couple of yawls years ago and found them to be somewhat squirrelly off the wind and recall I finally just left the mizzen furled. I think a lot of the different rigs were developed to handle local conditions... read that somewhere. Good discussion! Phil
__________________
Capt Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 12:40   #26
Registered User
 
Capt Phil's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stateline NV
Boat: Prior boats: Transpac 49; DeFever 54
Posts: 2,749
Re: Ketch Rig

markpierce... beautiful shot!! never sailed one... Phil
__________________
Capt Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 12:55   #27
Registered User
 
markpierce's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: M/V Carquinez Coot
Posts: 3,413
Re: Ketch Rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Phil View Post
markpierce... beautiful shot!! never sailed one... Phil
Here's the brig Lady Washington again, this time motoring near the entrance to Carquinez Strait, on its way to the California Delta. I believe the ship is available for rides.

__________________
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 13:02   #28
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,441
Re: Ketch Rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Phil View Post
I delivered a couple of yawls years ago and found them to be somewhat squirrelly off the wind and recall I finally just left the mizzen furled. I think a lot of the different rigs were developed to handle local conditions... read that somewhere. Good discussion! Phil
Many yawls were so designed to take advantage of kinks in the racing rules of the day... something about an advantage for split rigs in the ratings IIRC. The result was a bunch of sloops with tiny mizzens added (and hardly ever used).

Again IIRC, S&S's great boat Finisterre was one of them. We've encountered a couple of her sisterships cruising and they both had the mizzen removed. That boat would be lovely in either configuration!

Cheers,

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 13:15   #29
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Cook Islands Rarotonga
Boat: Hudson 50 and Formossa 51
Posts: 82
Re: Ketch Rig

I have 2 ketches and live in rarotonga, a force 50 and a formossa 51,we carry cargo (5 ton) and people to the outer islands. great all rounder boats .huge volume inside and good setup . we sail at 6.5 knt in 10 knts on the beam .not bad for a 30 ton boat , the mizzen is a life saver !fly in most conditions till 40 knts.will point quite well with headsail 2nd reef in main and full mizzen. we often get 11 knts down wind and a week or two ago got 16.2 in huge breaking 6 meter seas.not looking for that again but handled it well .force 50 is for sale.
__________________
bizzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 13:16   #30
Registered User
 
markpierce's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: M/V Carquinez Coot
Posts: 3,413
Re: Ketch Rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Many yawls were so designed to take advantage of kinks in the racing rules of the day... something about an advantage for split rigs in the ratings IIRC. The result was a bunch of sloops with tiny mizzens added (and hardly ever used).
With a yawl, one can "hang" a staysail which can be advantageous under some wind conditions.

I keep wondering about the effectiveness of this small yawl's sail rig:

__________________

__________________
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ketch

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:57.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.