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Old 05-02-2014, 18:20   #46
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Re: Keels

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Originally Posted by shanedennis View Post
Gotta agree there. My friend is sitting on his full keel at low tide tonight a few hundred meters away because his charts did not match up. At worst the bottom of his keel will be "sand"ed. The trailing bottom edge of my cutaway keel is missing a centimetre of fairing after backing off a sandbar a month or so ago. Would hate to be trying these "tricks" in a fin keeler with a deep rudder.

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Thought that was just a barnacle removal strategy?
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Old 05-02-2014, 18:32   #47
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Re: Keels

The link to Nasty Old Bob Perry was a very good read. I dont think it is too difficult to be banned from CF. I was threatened with banning when I got a little over agitated about a political nonsense thread. I have taken a vow to stay pure. To what , I dont know, but I must stay pure. ______Grant.
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Old 05-02-2014, 18:51   #48
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Re: Keels

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Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post
The boat is Maggie O'Katie. Glass boat, wood masts, ketch. Well cared for but out of the water for about 3 years now.
Looks like a local bought her recently.
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Old 06-02-2014, 13:06   #49
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Re: Keels

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Originally Posted by snaggletooth View Post
That long, skinny double ender 62' LOA is brand new and designed by he who was banned from this site, nasty old Bob Perry.
I handn't heard that Bob was banned. Sorry to hear that because he had a lot of great insight and I liked hearing from a good designer.
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Old 06-02-2014, 13:18   #50
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Re: Keels

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I handn't heard that Bob was banned. Sorry to hear that because he had a lot of great insight and I liked hearing from a good designer.
Happened awhile ago. Right after his son's death. He's active over on SA. Just don't bring up CF if you speak to him.

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Old 06-02-2014, 17:01   #51
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Re: Keels

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
Great pic. I'll bet that old double ender goes upwind like a witch!!
Its not that old. Unlike the speed-wagon photo posted by snag, it also won't hook lobster pots either.
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Old 06-02-2014, 17:11   #52
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Re: Keels

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I'd like to say that your comment regarding having to go faster through the water when docking a full keel is dead wrong. A cross wind or current certainly means you need a bit more speed, but no more than needed on a fin keeled boat and in my opinion, the best speed for maneuvering around the docks is as slow as possible while still maintaining steerage. i.e. barring cross wind/current, dead slow.

I try never to be moving around a dock faster than I am willing to hit it.

Regards,
Dan Best
Our modified full keel & skeg rudder weighs in at 36 tons. I also learned to go dead slow docking and close maneuvering. A stiff cross wind only means you aim a bit more up wind as you shake off the last ft/min and let the wind or current place you. With our long sides & long keelyou don't try to force your will on it ever wind & cross current always wins.

One nice feature we have enjoyed is that we can tune the boat to hold direction well. We have set a course and walked away from the wheel for more than 2 hours at a time. Fair breeze and small waves.
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Old 06-02-2014, 23:36   #53
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Keels

I sail a full keel sailboat (41ft Lord Nelson) and compared to previous fin keel boats I've sailed in the past I can say that maneuvering this boat in tight quarters took some practice to master. However, after practicing in open water it is now a piece of cake. I found that this boat is quite maneuverable using the "back and fill" technique (Google it). This boat can essentially spin on its own axis (within its own boat length) with this technique. It prefers to spin to starboard because of right handed prop but can also be spun to port. Depending on wind direction, current and obstacles in a marina, sometimes in order to go to port I will spin thru 270 degrees to starboard and then proceed forward. This is especially true if I'm in an extremely tight area in a marina, have no space in front of me due to my bowsprit and want to go to port but have a strong breeze pushing against my port bow. In that case it's easier to spin 270 to starboard than it is to back to starboard and then try to turn to port into the wind with no room in front of me. It's actually quiet satisfying once you have mastered it. You learn to gracefully spin your boat into and out of tight spots. Very predictable if you pay attention to wind and currents. Unlike steerage going astern which can be messy, steerage ahead is excellent even at 1 knot.
What I enjoy most about my boat and the reason I bought it is the comfort of the ride. For its length, the ride is amazing offshore in rough conditions. It's motion is gentle and it tracks well. It also has a large sail plan to help offset resistance from its full keel and it's performance is respectable. If a comfortable ride offshore is important to you I would recommend sailing both types of vessels (of similar length and in similar rough conditions) and judge for yourself. If you like the ride don't let the docking scare you. Click image for larger version

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Old 07-02-2014, 15:26   #54
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Re: Keels

Good points VChild. We have learned that in certain winds crossing the bow we cannot exit the slip and wheel into the wind either as you noted. We check for traffic & simply back out of our finger dock in a large circle, letting the wind push our bow downwind. We make the circle take us clear around the end cap of the docks into the next row of slips (270 in reverse) By this time, we are rotating and moving backwards with sufficient speed to easily kick the stern around with the prop wash on the rudder in forward gear. The boat jocky at Torresens taught me to stand on the forward side of the binnacle and face the stern to drive in reverse. This maneuver shocks most of my dockmates the first time they see it.
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Old 07-02-2014, 16:36   #55
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Re: Keels

You can bring up CF to crusty old Bob. Just be sure there are no children in the room when you do.
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Old 08-02-2014, 03:29   #56
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Re: Keels

http://sailing.about.com/od/typesofs...Keelshapes.htm

The previous link wouldn't work for me - here is the link again
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Old 08-02-2014, 04:25   #57
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Re: Keels



Off course you could have two keels, they work quite well especially for areas with tides enabling you to dry out.

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Old 08-02-2014, 06:02   #58
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Re: Keels

Ive just learned to be super cautious in marinas. If the tide is running strong I wait. Ive summered a few times on the folly river where the tide can run pretty darned fast. Some saturdays you could sit in the bar overlooking the marina and see a comedy of errors as people would attempt docking in a 4 knot current hitting the slips at a 45 deg angle. Crash bang smash. One memorable event was on the Bohicket creek watching some jerk trying to "teach" some gal how to dock. The current was ripping and he had no business leaving the slip. He was screaming at the poor girl as the boat got stuck sideways at the end of a floating concrete dock tearing a huge gouge out of the side of the boat. The marina was on a more narrow part of the creek and it sounded like you were in rapids as the water washed under the docks. Anyway, its not the boat its the operator which has been said before.
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Old 08-02-2014, 19:20   #59
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Re: Keels

If anyone is familiar with the pass that runs past Killarney in the Canadian North Channel you know the prevailing winds can generate a pretty good current. We contacted the harbor master and arranged for a dock space. All docks are perpendicular to the pass. Fortunately, the assigned space was on the down-current side of the dock and the opposite side was unoccupied although protected by a few piles. We pulled in and died in perfect placement proximate to the dock. We tossed lines to various eager volunteers. Others reached and grabbed lines we left conveniently available. We are 58 feet; 36 tons and with a mod-full keel. I shouted (courteously) to make fast the lines on the dock cleats. A simple command/request. Not a single soul bent a line over a cleat. These experienced small boat sailors held the lines by hand and tried to pull us laterally against the current. Four of them were nearly dragged off the dock as I progressively shouted to wrap the F--ing lines around the cleats. I finally had to abandon the attempt and circle around again. This time (same idiots) I had to scream quite belligerently to cleat the GD lines. I had to tell them several times before anyone would throw a hitch on a cleat. We used our Lewmar 65 to pull us onto the dock. No bumpers needed in this situation. Dock lines were like guitar strings.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:28   #60
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Re: Keels

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Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post
If anyone is familiar with the pass that runs past Killarney in the Canadian North Channel you know the prevailing winds can generate a pretty good current. We contacted the harbor master and arranged for a dock space. All docks are perpendicular to the pass. Fortunately, the assigned space was on the down-current side of the dock and the opposite side was unoccupied although protected by a few piles. We pulled in and died in perfect placement proximate to the dock. We tossed lines to various eager volunteers. Others reached and grabbed lines we left conveniently available. We are 58 feet; 36 tons and with a mod-full keel. I shouted (courteously) to make fast the lines on the dock cleats. A simple command/request. Not a single soul bent a line over a cleat. These experienced small boat sailors held the lines by hand and tried to pull us laterally against the current. Four of them were nearly dragged off the dock as I progressively shouted to wrap the F--ing lines around the cleats. I finally had to abandon the attempt and circle around again. This time (same idiots) I had to scream quite belligerently to cleat the GD lines. I had to tell them several times before anyone would throw a hitch on a cleat. We used our Lewmar 65 to pull us onto the dock. No bumpers needed in this situation. Dock lines were like guitar strings.
Can't count the number of times I've witnessed the old "I got this" when a turn would pull a hull up as gently as you please....

I think these are the same people who don't understand the mass-inertia combination of a train...
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