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Old 18-11-2010, 11:17   #61
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Originally Posted by bob perry View Post
"speed is of no concern at all to me"

What a very weird thing to say. I see the quest for speed under sail as a sign of good seamanship and an effort to most effectively use the forces and gear at hand.
Let me expand on my comment.... speed is of no concern to me in as much as I am not trying to set records or maximise the distance travelled per day because when I go off I will have no specific schedule to keep. It will not matter to me if it takes 2 weeks to get to the Med from the UK or 3 weeks or even 4 weeks.

I want a comfortable homey boat and if it does 6kts when a similar boat does 8 or 9kts then I don't really care. If I wanted speed, I would stay in my glider



(that wasn't me flying, but you get the idea.....)
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Old 18-11-2010, 11:26   #62
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Have a look at the colvic watsons as they are alot of boat for the money. We have more room below on ours than most 45 ft yachts. We have it all, washing machine, spin dryer,central heating,dvd,tv,sterio,computer,generator. Its just like a house on the water. If you want to see what the inside is like drop me a line with your e-mail and I will send some pics for you. Regards Pete at psg1640@gmail.com
Thank you for the offer. I've already seen Colvics like that on many of the boat-flogging websites. The space inside seems very well utilised.

SOLD - Colvic Countess 33 bilge-keeler - Yachtsnet Ltd. online UK yacht brokers - yacht brokerage and boat sales

Colvic Victor 40
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Old 18-11-2010, 12:07   #63
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Ok, spank me. When you are used to flying that glider I guess the difference between 5 knots and 7 knots does not fall under the category of "speed".
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Old 18-11-2010, 12:46   #64
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agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Well first, can't blame this one on the USA. Camper Nicholsons are made in the UK but to be fair, have seen plenty of US made boats with boat pox as well.

Also I looked closely at the work on the C.N. and the glass did not appear to be resin starved. Not sure if the delamination was due to glass layers that didn't bond during production or if the blisters had spread that badly.

I have seen many boats with blisters as large as 5-10 cm that were full of dark brown, acidic fluid that, from all accounts I have read, is a result of a reaction between the salt water that has penetrated the glass and unreacted resin or other chemicals used in the resin or layup process. And in many of these boats I have seen blisters and brown goo down into 2-3 layers of glass which was of course delaminated.

Maybe a moment to clarify terms. Technically osmosis is defined as molecules of a solvent (like water) passing through a permeable material, moving from an area where there is more solvent to an area where there is a less solvent ie concentrated solution. So in the case of boat blisters, the initial formation of the blisters is due to a reaction in the resin with moisture that entered the laminate by diffusion. Then after the an initial, small pocket of concentrated acidic solution forms it is enlarged by water entering under osmotic pressure trying to dilute the liquid in the blister.

So, osmosis doesn't start the reaction but is the mechanism that causes the blister to enlarge and poke out on the bottom and, over time to accelerate the penetration into the layers of glass causing delamination and weakening the structure.
I totaly agree with all that. In alot of the boats that I have found delamination after getting the bits into the lab I have found that bad practices in the layup stages are mostly at fault. In explaination, The person or persons laying up the hull have a break either at lunchtime or overnight and then restart the layup process this is the biggest fault time. I investigated a few companies to see if they used styrenemonoma when layup times were interupted and found that in MOST cases it wasnt. This in its self is not the worst thing in the world but does significantly increse the chances in the future of delamination. And so we can go on and on but in the end it is person doing the layup that makes the quality of the hull. I meet a chap called Mike in Guernsey in the british channel islands wo was the cheif laminater for a boat company and I can say hand on heart that he is the best I have seen. I checked 7 boats that he had laminated and not ONE fault. There again he was a fanatic in his work and told me that he LOVED his job. Oerhaps thats what is missing today. Pete
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Old 18-11-2010, 12:56   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob perry View Post
Minty:
Ok, spank me.


It's not often I get an offer like that!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob perry View Post
When you are used to flying that glider I guess the difference between 5 knots and 7 knots does not fall under the category of "speed".
Floating the aircraft on a ground-effect air cushion at 3-6ft altitude at speed is one heck of a buzz.....

I've spent my life rushing around. It's time to go at a more sedate pace. Also I need to take SWMBO with me and, whilst she enjoys the odd flight every so often it's not really her thing. She wants a nice, roomy comfortable boat and I'm told by those that know that a wide, flat bottomed boat is no racer.
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Old 18-11-2010, 12:57   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feelsgood View Post
I totaly agree with all that. In alot of the boats that I have found delamination after getting the bits into the lab I have found that bad practices in the layup stages are mostly at fault. In explaination, The person or persons laying up the hull have a break either at lunchtime or overnight and then restart the layup process this is the biggest fault time. I investigated a few companies to see if they used styrenemonoma when layup times were interupted and found that in MOST cases it wasnt. This in its self is not the worst thing in the world but does significantly increse the chances in the future of delamination. And so we can go on and on but in the end it is person doing the layup that makes the quality of the hull. I meet a chap called Mike in Guernsey in the british channel islands wo was the cheif laminater for a boat company and I can say hand on heart that he is the best I have seen. I checked 7 boats that he had laminated and not ONE fault. There again he was a fanatic in his work and told me that he LOVED his job. Oerhaps thats what is missing today. Pete
Good points all around. A delay between layers, allowing the resin to cure too much, will definitely produce a much weaker bond with the next layer. Have also read that some US producers, during the first big oil crisis which resulted in much higher resin prices, switched to lower grades including the use of PG in the resins which contributed a lot to blistering during one period.

It was interesting to observe in the early days of the blister phenomenon that the more expensive US and European built boats had much worse problems overall than the cheaper, Taiwan built boats. Heard various theories as to why but never heard a definitive proof.

At the end of the day your last comment is one of the most critical, good skills and workmanship are extremely important in glass work, especially hand layups. Done right, even with cheaper resins you end up with fewer problems. Of course you often don't see the problems until many years down the road so it's easy for builders to not care.
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Old 18-11-2010, 13:13   #67
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Full keel no ifs ands or buts. Because they do NOT fall off, they protect the rudder and prop and can heave to all day long.
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Old 18-11-2010, 13:32   #68
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One of the first Astronauts owned an Islander Freeport 36.

I finally came to the conclusion/theory that the more high tech the job the more low tech the boat.
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Old 18-11-2010, 13:51   #69
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Minty:
One of the first Astronauts owned an Islander Freeport 36.

I finally came to the conclusion/theory that the more high tech the job the more low tech the boat.
Yes - I'd agree with that. My aviation experience means I have bumped into a few fighter pilots and they drive old beat up slow cars.

My "homey" boat does NOT have to be a high tech one and I have quite a technical job. Gliders (one of my current hobbies) can be very low tech and it is not unknown for a club aircraft to have only 3 instruments all of which are pneumatic.

One of the reasons I want a bilge keeler is that boat maintenance will be simpler if I can just park it and hop down for a few hours before the tide comes back up. Here in the UK boats often get "stranded" on mudflats and sand bars when the sea disappears for a few hours at a time. It seems a simple and elegant way to do routine tasks. The shallow draft will be useful as well.
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Old 18-11-2010, 14:05   #70
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I am in favor of keels....
I don't like keels, but it's hard to keep the boat up right w/o it. I could buy a Cat but they are hard to keep up right too if your a lazy sailor like myself. And the keel points you up wind a whole lot better.
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Old 18-11-2010, 14:22   #71
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Another viewpoint on "Osmotic Blistering"

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Old 18-11-2010, 14:33   #72
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I really wanted to find a reasonably priced bilge keeler on my last boat search, but unfortunately couldn't find one...
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Old 18-11-2010, 14:44   #73
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Keel Types

We have owned 2 full keel Ingrid 38 bluewater cruisers which we lived & cruised in. I'm attaching a photo of our current Ingrid KOKOPELLI on the hard that shows her keel.Click image for larger version

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ID:	21216. She handles well in rough seas..and I must confess we have hit bottom a few times on the east coast of the US. Whereas that never happen with our previous Ingrid that we had on the west coast of the US waters nice & deep even close to shore. She substained no damage at all... only my chagrin & pride were effected I must confess..!!
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Old 18-11-2010, 15:24   #74
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flat bottomed

Quote:
Originally Posted by mintyspilot View Post


It's not often I get an offer like that!!!



Floating the aircraft on a ground-effect air cushion at 3-6ft altitude at speed is one heck of a buzz.....

I've spent my life rushing around. It's time to go at a more sedate pace. Also I need to take SWMBO with me and, whilst she enjoys the odd flight every so often it's not really her thing. She wants a nice, roomy comfortable boat and I'm told by those that know that a wide, flat bottomed boat is no racer.
Hey Man thats my wife round with a flat bottom great in a storm and comfortable as hell.
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Old 19-11-2010, 02:42   #75
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Hey Man thats my wife round with a flat bottom great in a storm and comfortable as hell.
Excellent!

The ladies on here will have your hide if they read that.... but it sounds like you have everything a man needs.
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