Keel Damage

[FLH91]

Hello everyone! I'm looking to buy a used Catalina 445. This will be our first sailboat. It has a fair amount of damage to the keel. Two people (with sail experience) have told me, "if you're a real sailor, you have hit bottom and a damaged keel is no big deal, and I wouldn't bother getting it repaired". However, I have yet to see a sailboat ANYWHERE that has unrepaired damage to the keel, so either no one is a sailor....or someone isn't being completely honest with me.
So....my question to you is this: does it need to be repaired, or should I just leave it alone because "I'm a sailor and it's going to get damaged anyway"?
PLEASE NOTE: I do not need to know HOW to repair it.....just looking for advice/opinions on if it really does need to be repaired. Also relevant to this situation.....there does not seem to be any other damage to the hull, just the dents in the lead keel.
Thanks in advance!

[Greg4cocokai]

No problem. Easy repair. Anybody that's been anywhere has hit bottom!

[Sailmonkey]

I’m not sure I would “repair” it. Sand smooth and paint, yes.

[Greg4cocokai]

I would fair it in. Just make sure there's no cracks up by the keel the hull joint!

[roverhi]

Wouldn't worry about the damage to the keel but would be very concerned about possible damage to the hull at the keel connection. Could be no problem and then could be a major issue. Pull the floor boards and carefully look in the bilge. Better yet, get a good surveyor and tell him about the damage and your concern before he does the survey.

[doug1957]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Wouldn't worry about the damage to the keel but would be very concerned about possible damage to the hull at the keel connection. Could be no problem and then could be a major issue. Pull the floor boards and carefully look in the bilge. Better yet, get a good surveyor and tell him about the damage and your concern before he does the survey.

Exactly. May not be a big deal, but if it was a hard grounding, that would be major $$ for repair.

[AKA-None]

Well that certainly doesn't look like it hit sand there are a few decent sized gouges there.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Greg4cocokai

I would fair it in. Just make sure there's no cracks up by the keel the hull joint!

+1

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by FLH91

Hello everyone! I'm looking to buy a used Catalina 445. This will be our first sailboat. It has a fair amount of damage to the keel. Two people (with sail experience) have told me, "if you're a real sailor, you have hit bottom and a damaged keel is no big deal, and I wouldn't bother getting it repaired". However, I have yet to see a sailboat ANYWHERE that has unrepaired damage to the keel, so either no one is a sailor....or someone isn't being completely honest with me.
So....my question to you is this: does it need to be repaired, or should I just leave it alone because "I'm a sailor and it's going to get damaged anyway"?
PLEASE NOTE: I do not need to know HOW to repair it.....just looking for advice/opinions on if it really does need to be repaired. Also relevant to this situation.....there does not seem to be any other damage to the hull, just the dents in the lead keel.
Thanks in advance!

Well, anything that is not fair on the wetted surface of a sailboat, should be repaired.

As others have mentioned, if you wish to buy this boat (because everything else appeals to you), advise the surveyor of the grounding and ask them to pay particular attention to any damage this may have caused.

If it was just a soft grounding on sand or mud that scraped some anti-fouling paint off, that would be considered minor, every boat is run aground some time in it's life.

But your photos indicate a hard grounding (rocks) that removed some serious metal. At very least, the hull / keel join and keel bolts should be checked.

If not OK, possibly requiring keel removal, structural fibreglass work, new keel bolts, etc. you could easily push over $10K

If OK, the cost for a yard to fair the keel should be less than $1K (with the boat already out of the water).

[deluxe68]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Wouldn't worry about the damage to the keel but would be very concerned about possible damage to the hull at the keel connection. Could be no problem and then could be a major issue. Pull the floor boards and carefully look in the bilge. Better yet, get a good surveyor and tell him about the damage and your concern before he does the survey.

This.


Get a serious survey and get the repair history in writing. Not sure if that model has a lead or iron keel, but I would be worried about damage to the keel/hull joint. It is a buyers market, plenty of undamaged boats out there.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by deluxe68

This.


Get a serious survey and get the repair history in writing. Not sure if that model has a lead or iron keel, but I would be worried about damage to the keel/hull joint. It is a buyers market, plenty of undamaged boats out there.

Indeed. Lead is very soft and with the momentum of tons of boat, even a little brush with something hard will do damage like that. No big deal at all, but others have given good advice about fairing it smooth, and being really sure about the keel bolts and keel to hull joint. But you would want to be careful with that even without visible damage.

Another tip - lead takes some care to prep and prime properly. I just did mine - look for the thread about it.

[FLH91]

Thank you all for your valuable advice. I read every word and I'm taking it all to heart. I have already sent the pics to the surveyor, I'll let you know what he says. Guess we'll see if I get this boat or not sometime soon. Again, I'll let you all know the outcome. Thanks again!! Great forum!

If you have any more thoughts on this, keep them coming!

[CarlF]

The gouges are easy to fix and no problem. The question to discuss with the surveyor is whether the keel bolts (they hold the keel to the hull) are OK. A hard grounding can break one or more keel bolts. This makes it more likely that the remaining bolts could give way in the future and the keel fall off. This causes the boat to immediately capsize. Obviously a bad thing.

The best way to check the bolts is to "drop the keel" but this is far beyond the scope of a normal survey.

It's likely you are fine but "keel bolts" are one of those things that the more experience you have with older sailboats the more you worry.

The Cheeki Rafiki and four professional crew were lost crew when the keel fell off due to unrepaired keel bolts from groundings.

[Calif.Ted]

Catalina's MO is lead keels with 316 stainless J-bolts cast in, I'd have it faired, I like a smooth bottom.

[Cheechako]

Some pretty hard hits there but probably not an issue. However, make sure your surveyor looks closely at the hull fore and aft of the keel, as well as all tabbing of bulkheads and furniture to the hull. The stresses involved with hard grounding can cause cracking in those places. ( the hull flexes up behind the keel and flexes down forward of the keel, especially on thin built production boats.)
I managed a Cat 42 in charter. a Charterer hit a rock at 5- 5.5 knots in Puget Sound. The boat had to return to base. The engine bed, some cabinetry in the galley, had marginally torn loose from the hull when the hull flexed. ~$20k in damage. one hit. You have multiple hits there it looks like.