Just how insane is this idea? - Page 2

SkiprJohn · 07-11-2006, 01:27

Tspringer,
I've told you my story and I would just suggest that since you are not ready to go cruising yet, wait to shop around and find the very best.
I always say no longer than 36 overall, fiberglass, cutter rig, aft cockpit but that's my preference and experience. I've delivered and helped deliver 46 foot boats and know that my favorites are still 36 and under.
You seem focused on the Liberty. I'm not familiar with it but there are others on this forum who seem to know the boat.
Good luck on your choice. Don't wait too long to get going.
Kind Regards,
JohnL

SkiprJohn · 07-11-2006, 01:28

Oops, I meant no longer than 36 on deck.
Sorry

JohnL

Tspringer · 07-11-2006, 07:47

The boat in question is a 1984 Liberty 458. It completed a 2 year southern caribbean cruise in the summer of 2005 and has apparently been on the hard for sale for something over a year at this point.

I have gotten more details on the interior layout and I do think it would be great with kids. Each kid would have their own cabin plus the boat could accomodate two adult guest without it being painful making grandparents and friends visits a good option.

The boat will apparently need a fair amount of teak refinishing in the interior, probably needs some teak deck caulking and probably some repairs there and may need new sails and canvas. Plus I am sure it will need plenty of other "stuff". I could see all of this costing $50K or more in a hurry. Perhaps even more.

The way I figure it, ANY boat is going to demand money soon after purchase. But is it worth the effort to buy a boat needing a good bit of work and then pay someone to do most of it? To me, only if the purchase price is VERY VERY attractive.

Terry

SkiprJohn · 07-11-2006, 11:51

Aloha Terry,
I think you're sorting it out quite nicely. I think there was another recommendation to go as small as you can easily afford now and build your skills both in repair and seamanship and when you are ready to do the big cruise look for the proper larger vessel.
I agree with that.
You can save a lot of money with the proper investments in five years and you can outright buy the boat of your dreams.
I've fallen in lust with too many boats to say that you shouldn't be impulsive. Just throw a little caution into the insanity.
Again, good luck!
JohnL

Pa La O La · 07-11-2006, 17:42

Terry,

Hey, wow if I could go back. Both my boys are grown and if I could take them cursing knowing what I do now I wouldn’t hesitate. I am firmly of the mind it would be better sooner rather than later to get the kids on the boat. Even if it is just to live aboard to finish fitting out the boat. Before they become too attached to all the gadgets they won’t have room for on board. Instead of being an adventure it will be about you taking them away from their world of friends and toys, TV –all the gadgets kids just got to have because all their friends do. The children I’ve met who started relatively young are so mature and level headed. We spent a few months at another marina before we moved to this slip. Two daughters 11 & 15 the older is completely miserable the younger seemed to be adjusting. For three years we lived at marina with a couple with three kids under 6. Kids were great, happy as could be. This was on a 34 ft. mono hull. A bit tight for me but it seemed too worked for them. I work with a lady who had cursed till the kids got to their teens. They’ve moved off the boat and it is on the hard till the kids are out of High School. She said it was all good till the first one hit 12. Then the kids just wanted to be with their peers. The other thought is do your own work every time you can. The learning curve can be steep but in the end it will be the best.

Good luck and fair winds.

Gary

Lodesman · 07-11-2006, 21:30

Terry and all,

This discussion has introduced new ideas to our cruising plans. Originally we were aiming at shoving off in 4-5 years with as big a boat as we can reasonably afford and handle, and go for 5 years or so. That's a lot of investment in time and money, if we get out there and decide it's not our cup of tea. Now we're thinking of getting a more modest boat and going in less than 2 years. Figure we'll commit to 1 year cruising, not too far from home(and we will probably keep our home). Kids will be younger and smaller, so a smaller boat won't be a problem; might even be preferred. If we like the lifestyle, we can move up to a larger boat then. If we've given it our best effort and it's not for us, then we will have lost less time and ultimately money and we'll be able to slip back into our lives a lot quicker - the kids will have less of a disruption in school and social lives at a younger age too. To be totally realistic, we have no idea if the wife or kids will enjoy sailing around the world; even I, with near 20 years in the Navy don't know if it will be all that we dream it will be. Recent events for us have driven the point home that life has a way of changing your plans, so you should take advantage of the here and now and go as soon as you can.

Kevin

Weyalan · 07-11-2006, 21:53

One of the things that I have learned since buying my boat is that while having a biiger boat has obvious advantages in terms of living space, comfort and storage, it is no good having a boat that is bigger than you can handle. My boat is 40' and I certainly wouldn't want anything bigger - that is with a crew of 2 who are both very experienced sailors with good health and general fitness. Obviously, if you have enough money to throw at your purchase, you can get electric winches and bow thrusters and other fancy stuff that makes life a whole lot easier (which I certainly will never be able to afford) but, even then, electric things and salt water are uneasy bed-buddies... things do break, and sooner or later you will have to resort to manual power...

gharr8 · 09-11-2006, 15:43

Terry,
I went to Yachtworld.com and checked out the Liberty 458. I dont blame you.....that looks like a great SV. This boat is very similar to one I have my eye on. This could definetly be a 2nd choice if my first choice sells before I can get to it.

I say go get it. Use it. live on it as much as possible. Leave it on the coast or move inland later. Whatever it takes. By using it now, you will learn alot. And hopefully be ready to cast off someday.....I'll buy you a drink in Tortolla!!!!

07-11-2006, 17:42	#5
Pa La O La Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Key West, FL Boat: Prout Snow Goose Posts: 81	Terry, Hey, wow if I could go back. Both my boys are grown and if I could take them cursing knowing what I do now I wouldn’t hesitate. I am firmly of the mind it would be better sooner rather than later to get the kids on the boat. Even if it is just to live aboard to finish fitting out the boat. Before they become too attached to all the gadgets they won’t have room for on board. Instead of being an adventure it will be about you taking them away from their world of friends and toys, TV –all the gadgets kids just got to have because all their friends do. The children I’ve met who started relatively young are so mature and level headed. We spent a few months at another marina before we moved to this slip. Two daughters 11 & 15 the older is completely miserable the younger seemed to be adjusting. For three years we lived at marina with a couple with three kids under 6. Kids were great, happy as could be. This was on a 34 ft. mono hull. A bit tight for me but it seemed too worked for them. I work with a lady who had cursed till the kids got to their teens. They’ve moved off the boat and it is on the hard till the kids are out of High School. She said it was all good till the first one hit 12. Then the kids just wanted to be with their peers. The other thought is do your own work every time you can. The learning curve can be steep but in the end it will be the best. Good luck and fair winds. Gary __________________ Ain't No reset button, better make this one count !

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07-11-2006, 01:27	#1
SkiprJohn Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii Boat: Cascade, Cutter, 42 - "Casual" Posts: 5,198	Tspringer, I've told you my story and I would just suggest that since you are not ready to go cruising yet, wait to shop around and find the very best. I always say no longer than 36 overall, fiberglass, cutter rig, aft cockpit but that's my preference and experience. I've delivered and helped deliver 46 foot boats and know that my favorites are still 36 and under. You seem focused on the Liberty. I'm not familiar with it but there are others on this forum who seem to know the boat. Good luck on your choice. Don't wait too long to get going. Kind Regards, JohnL

07-11-2006, 01:28	#2
SkiprJohn Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii Boat: Cascade, Cutter, 42 - "Casual" Posts: 5,198	Oops, I meant no longer than 36 on deck. Sorry JohnL

07-11-2006, 07:47	#3
Tspringer Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 237	The boat in question is a 1984 Liberty 458. It completed a 2 year southern caribbean cruise in the summer of 2005 and has apparently been on the hard for sale for something over a year at this point. I have gotten more details on the interior layout and I do think it would be great with kids. Each kid would have their own cabin plus the boat could accomodate two adult guest without it being painful making grandparents and friends visits a good option. The boat will apparently need a fair amount of teak refinishing in the interior, probably needs some teak deck caulking and probably some repairs there and may need new sails and canvas. Plus I am sure it will need plenty of other "stuff". I could see all of this costing $50K or more in a hurry. Perhaps even more. The way I figure it, ANY boat is going to demand money soon after purchase. But is it worth the effort to buy a boat needing a good bit of work and then pay someone to do most of it? To me, only if the purchase price is VERY VERY attractive. Terry

07-11-2006, 11:51	#4
SkiprJohn Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii Boat: Cascade, Cutter, 42 - "Casual" Posts: 5,198	Aloha Terry, I think you're sorting it out quite nicely. I think there was another recommendation to go as small as you can easily afford now and build your skills both in repair and seamanship and when you are ready to do the big cruise look for the proper larger vessel. I agree with that. You can save a lot of money with the proper investments in five years and you can outright buy the boat of your dreams. I've fallen in lust with too many boats to say that you shouldn't be impulsive. Just throw a little caution into the insanity. Again, good luck! JohnL

07-11-2006, 21:30	#6
Lodesman Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ottawa ON Canada Boat: 26' trailer sailer (starter) Posts: 1,073	Terry and all, This discussion has introduced new ideas to our cruising plans. Originally we were aiming at shoving off in 4-5 years with as big a boat as we can reasonably afford and handle, and go for 5 years or so. That's a lot of investment in time and money, if we get out there and decide it's not our cup of tea. Now we're thinking of getting a more modest boat and going in less than 2 years. Figure we'll commit to 1 year cruising, not too far from home(and we will probably keep our home). Kids will be younger and smaller, so a smaller boat won't be a problem; might even be preferred. If we like the lifestyle, we can move up to a larger boat then. If we've given it our best effort and it's not for us, then we will have lost less time and ultimately money and we'll be able to slip back into our lives a lot quicker - the kids will have less of a disruption in school and social lives at a younger age too. To be totally realistic, we have no idea if the wife or kids will enjoy sailing around the world; even I, with near 20 years in the Navy don't know if it will be all that we dream it will be. Recent events for us have driven the point home that life has a way of changing your plans, so you should take advantage of the here and now and go as soon as you can. Kevin

07-11-2006, 21:53	#7
Weyalan Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tasmania Boat: VandeStadt IOR 40' - Insatiable Posts: 1,260	One of the things that I have learned since buying my boat is that while having a biiger boat has obvious advantages in terms of living space, comfort and storage, it is no good having a boat that is bigger than you can handle. My boat is 40' and I certainly wouldn't want anything bigger - that is with a crew of 2 who are both very experienced sailors with good health and general fitness. Obviously, if you have enough money to throw at your purchase, you can get electric winches and bow thrusters and other fancy stuff that makes life a whole lot easier (which I certainly will never be able to afford) but, even then, electric things and salt water are uneasy bed-buddies... things do break, and sooner or later you will have to resort to manual power...

09-11-2006, 15:43	#8
gharr8 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: west palm beach, fl Posts: 17	Terry, I went to Yachtworld.com and checked out the Liberty 458. I dont blame you.....that looks like a great SV. This boat is very similar to one I have my eye on. This could definetly be a 2nd choice if my first choice sells before I can get to it. I say go get it. Use it. live on it as much as possible. Leave it on the coast or move inland later. Whatever it takes. By using it now, you will learn alot. And hopefully be ready to cast off someday.....I'll buy you a drink in Tortolla!!!!