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Old 12-05-2015, 20:00   #16
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Re: Just for fun: Match the mono to the cat

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Originally Posted by BlueBuddha View Post
Yes. This is the take I get from those I've talked to about this. How about a more straight forward one. What are the stereotypical monohulls brands associated with 1) mass production charter bound 2) mid range bw cruiser 3) high end bw cruisers. thanks.





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1) jenneau
2) amel
3) discovery


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Old 12-05-2015, 20:08   #17
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Re: Just for fun: Match the mono to the cat

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Originally Posted by Mach.80 to 8Kts View Post
Laughing so much...indeed. Makes me smile when I read that. You should laugh and not take life too seriously. Never sailed a cat. Been on board a few. Even checked out the latest and greatest at the Southampton boat show last year. I couldn't get off them fast enough. It is a condo on pontoons. Sure it goes fast...



Cat's and speed records and the Americas Cup.. the closest I will ever get to that is the photo below,



What's that Grateful Dead line? "You want the cup but you don't want to race."



Yes that a Louis Vuitton box and it travels in it's own seat in first class.



I do my share of going fast. When I'm on a boat, I want to chill.

So you obviously plead ignorance as you have no experience sailing catamarans? I have owned both and honestly like both but for long term for myself and my wife it's multihull's.
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Old 12-05-2015, 20:09   #18
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Re: Just for fun: Match the mono to the cat

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Originally Posted by brookiesailor View Post
1) jenneau
2) amel
3) discovery


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Cool. Thanks.
Would you put Borals and Oysters in #2 or #3 category?
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Old 12-05-2015, 20:23   #19
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Re: Just for fun: Match the mono to the cat

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Originally Posted by BlueBuddha View Post
Yes. This is the take I get from those I've talked to about this. How about a more straight forward one. What are the stereotypical monohulls brands associated with 1) mass production charter bound 2) mid range bw cruiser 3) high end bw cruisers. thanks.
Hi Again.

Well, I think the problem is that now you are just limiting it to 3 categories, and those $$ are not defined in what makes a "mid" and "high" end.

As I see it, there are MANY different levels of mono boats because of the long history, many builders, many models, and many price points.

So, I think it would be more fruitful to have a "match up" that is based on more characteristic descriptives with the mono list starting, then match the fewer cats to those monos. There may be overlap or multiple matches. There may be some categories where NO production catamaran exists to fill that niche (e.g. High Latitude Expedition yachts).


For example:

"Boat Built in Backyard and Promoted as Blue Water" = Bruce Roberts Steel Monos = Cross or Piver Plywood multihulls

"Boat Built for Day Sailing or Club Racing Speed" = JBoats J29 = Farrier f27

"Boat Built for Buyers with Desire for Solid Wood Interiors" = Tayana 47 = Antares 44i

"Boat Built for Comfortable Middle-Class Cruising" = Hunter 40/Beneteau 42 = Lagoon 380

"Boat Built for Buyers Who Value Very Expensive Items" = Hinckley Sou'wester 59 = Gunboat 55
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Old 13-05-2015, 07:32   #20
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Re: Just for fun: Match the mono to the cat

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Originally Posted by Mach.80 to 8Kts View Post
I see catamarans as boats with training wheels. Maybe one day you can take the training wheels off and sail monohull. Catamarans are akin to wanting to go sailing but not leaving your condo. As such, your comparison should be catamarans to RVs, as opposed to cars. As for monohulls, you can compare those to cars and maybe pick up trucks.
Fire away. I have thick skin.
️there's no emoticon for cats. Things that make you go hmm.
Congradualtions, you've won troll of the year for a totally pointless post that adds zero information to the discussion but is purely to try and stir people up.
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Old 13-05-2015, 07:53   #21
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Just for fun: Match the mono to the cat

Thank you for the accolades. It seems for some people you need to spell things out in minute detail. The training wheels were a metaphor for comfort. True I have not sailed a catamaran. More or less, the time I've spent on catamarans I felt like I've been in an apartment and not a sailboat. It's a matter of personal choice. I'd be interested in knowing how many people that sail catamarans drive pick up trucks or large SUVs as the sole occupant of the vehicle. Of course if you use your vehicle for work, and/or regularly required to pull heavy trailers that makes sense. It seems we live in a culture of excesses.
So while you see it as stirring the pot, I see it as stimulating thought. Going beyond the surface. But then again, perhaps you've grown up in a culture that doesn't encourage free thinkers. I can't possibly know. I know nothing about you. And nor should I believe that your response represents you as a whole. It's just the tip of the iceberg we see here.
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Old 13-05-2015, 08:00   #22
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Re: Just for fun: Match the mono to the cat

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Originally Posted by Mach.80 to 8Kts View Post
Thank you for the accolades. It seems for some people you need to spell things out in minute detail. The training wheels were a metaphor for comfort. True I have not sailed a catamaran. More or less, the time I've spent on catamarans I felt like I've been in an apartment and not a sailboat. It's a matter of personal choice. I'd be interested in knowing how many people that sail catamarans drive pick up trucks or large SUVs as the sole occupant of the vehicle. Of course if you use your vehicle for work, and/or regularly required to pull heavy trailers that makes sense. It seems we live in a culture of excesses.
So while you see it as stirring the pot, I see it as stimulating thought. Going beyond the surface. But then again, perhaps you've grown up in a culture that doesn't encourage free thinkers. I can't possibly know. I know nothing about you. And nor should I believe that your response represents you as a whole. It's just the tip of the iceberg we see here.
Thanks for the clarification. So in other words, your idea of cruising is being as uncomfortable as possible and have no experience with catamarans.

Got it!

(FYI - I drive an F250 but tow a 5th wheel about 10,000miles per year)

PS: Nice side attack implying anyone who doesn't agree with you must have grown up in a bad culture and is not be a free thinker
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Old 13-05-2015, 08:41   #23
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Re: Just for fun: Match the mono to the cat

OK, this is not meant to be an argument...
Firstly, yes we have differing philosophies on what we want from this world. I am going to assume that you place a high priority on comfort. As such, when you vacation on land you also travel in with a fifth wheel. That's fine. I bare no ill will for your choice. Please enjoy. This is just one piece of evidence that supports my demographic theory of cat owners. It is by no means a proof.

I, on the other hand, choose as a member of the global community to reduce my impact on this planet and try to consume less in my daily life; leave a smaller footprint on this planet for my children. I chose to live in a smaller house than I can afford. I chose to drive a smaller car as most of the time I am alone I the car. This by no means is an indication that I chose to be uncomfortable. Infact, I would argue that I am very comfortable when I compare myself to others in my own country, let alone around the world. I do not think my choice is morally or ethically superior than your choice.

I switched to whitewater canoeing for a while after being pinned underwater in my kayak. I was scared to get back in the Kayak for the longest time. I also did some whitewater rafting. Eventually, I returned to the Kayak because it was a closer experience to the whitewater. Sure the canoe was more comfortable but I liked the exhilaration of the Kayak.

I like monohulls because I feel closer to what I want to experience. I fault no one for wanting a different experience.

Again, as I said before, like an iceberg, I know nothing about you. You may be actively involved in your community helping the disadvantaged. I do not presume to judge you because of your choices. To do so would be just asinine.

As for your comments that I demean the value of other peoples input, while that would make for a boring one sided discussion if I were not open to the opinion of others. I never implied that you did grow up in a country that doesn't support free thinkers. Nor did I use the word bad.


I also remember this like it was yesterday.
Le Bon Voyage - Yachting World

And yes, I also remember the monohulls of the Fastnet 79 race.

Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion...Match the mono to the cat
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Old 13-05-2015, 14:19   #24
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Re: Just for fun: Match the mono to the cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach.80 to 8Kts View Post
OK, this is not meant to be an argument...

Firstly, yes we have differing philosophies on what we want from this world. I am going to assume that you place a high priority on comfort. As such, when you vacation on land you also travel in with a fifth wheel. That's fine. I bare no ill will for your choice. Please enjoy. This is just one piece of evidence that supports my demographic theory of cat owners. It is by no means a proof.



I, on the other hand, choose as a member of the global community to reduce my impact on this planet and try to consume less in my daily life; leave a smaller footprint on this planet for my children. I chose to live in a smaller house than I can afford. I chose to drive a smaller car as most of the time I am alone I the car. This by no means is an indication that I chose to be uncomfortable. Infact, I would argue that I am very comfortable when I compare myself to others in my own country, let alone around the world. I do not think my choice is morally or ethically superior than your choice.



I switched to whitewater canoeing for a while after being pinned underwater in my kayak. I was scared to get back in the Kayak for the longest time. I also did some whitewater rafting. Eventually, I returned to the Kayak because it was a closer experience to the whitewater. Sure the canoe was more comfortable but I liked the exhilaration of the Kayak.



I like monohulls because I feel closer to what I want to experience. I fault no one for wanting a different experience.



Again, as I said before, like an iceberg, I know nothing about you. You may be actively involved in your community helping the disadvantaged. I do not presume to judge you because of your choices. To do so would be just asinine.



As for your comments that I demean the value of other peoples input, while that would make for a boring one sided discussion if I were not open to the opinion of others. I never implied that you did grow up in a country that doesn't support free thinkers. Nor did I use the word bad.





I also remember this like it was yesterday.

Le Bon Voyage - Yachting World



And yes, I also remember the monohulls of the Fastnet 79 race.



Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion...Match the mono to the cat

You would leave an even smaller footprint if you lived in a tent and rode a bicycle.
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Old 13-05-2015, 14:38   #25
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Re: Just for fun: Match the mono to the cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach.80 to 8Kts View Post
Thank you for the accolades. It seems for some people you need to spell things out in minute detail. The training wheels were a metaphor for comfort. True I have not sailed a catamaran. More or less, the time I've spent on catamarans I felt like I've been in an apartment and not a sailboat. It's a matter of personal choice. I'd be interested in knowing how many people that sail catamarans drive pick up trucks or large SUVs as the sole occupant of the vehicle. Of course if you use your vehicle for work, and/or regularly required to pull heavy trailers that makes sense. It seems we live in a culture of excesses.
So while you see it as stirring the pot, I see it as stimulating thought. Going beyond the surface. But then again, perhaps you've grown up in a culture that doesn't encourage free thinkers. I can't possibly know. I know nothing about you. And nor should I believe that your response represents you as a whole. It's just the tip of the iceberg we see here.
There are a many dozens of threads arguing for and against catamarans. Just search Monos vs. Cats. You can go there and join the countless others who have similar pre-conceived notions about the type of people who choose to sail catamarans.

This thread was not at all about that stupid, tired, childish, and utterly useless debate. It was an effort to understand the different perceptions of mono brands using my understanding of cats as a guide.

They say don't feel the trolls. I failed.
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Old 13-05-2015, 15:12   #26
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Re: Just for fun: Match the mono to the cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBuddha View Post
Yes. This is the take I get from those I've talked to about this. How about a more straight forward one. What are the stereotypical monohulls brands associated with 1) mass production charter bound 2) mid range bw cruiser 3) high end bw cruisers. thanks.





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Bluebhuda,

I like the direction you're going with this, but you seem to be more focused on different price points rather than different design goals.

For example: a C &C 40 isn't just a mid price point boat, but it's also distinctly racer/cruiser.

Beneteau first also a racer cruiser, very fast, but also comfortable.

Then in the same size range, A Hunter 38, not only is it likely to be a bit more affordable, but it doesn't have the racing ability of the above boats.

Then take a dog slow full bodied double ender like mine and you have an entirely different class of vessel (but not necessarily different price point). On topic I don't think their is a Cat equivalent of a full bodied double ender, the design philosophy is just so different for a cat. Imagine a 35' cat that weighed in at 24000 lbs, carried a metric ton of fresh water and half a ton of diesel? I'm not in any way anti cat, I could easily imagine myself in one in the future. For the time being though I like my bomb proof weatherly double ender (which coincidentally is a very very spacious and comfortable boat).

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Old 13-05-2015, 15:23   #27
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Re: Just for fun: Match the mono to the cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach.80 to 8Kts View Post
OK, this is not meant to be an argument...
Firstly, yes we have differing philosophies on what we want from this world. I am going to assume that you place a high priority on comfort. As such, when you vacation on land you also travel in with a fifth wheel. That's fine. I bare no ill will for your choice. Please enjoy. This is just one piece of evidence that supports my demographic theory of cat owners. It is by no means a proof.

I, on the other hand, choose as a member of the global community to reduce my impact on this planet and try to consume less in my daily life; leave a smaller footprint on this planet for my children. I chose to live in a smaller house than I can afford. I chose to drive a smaller car as most of the time I am alone I the car. This by no means is an indication that I chose to be uncomfortable. Infact, I would argue that I am very comfortable when I compare myself to others in my own country, let alone around the world. I do not think my choice is morally or ethically superior than your choice.

I switched to whitewater canoeing for a while after being pinned underwater in my kayak. I was scared to get back in the Kayak for the longest time. I also did some whitewater rafting. Eventually, I returned to the Kayak because it was a closer experience to the whitewater. Sure the canoe was more comfortable but I liked the exhilaration of the Kayak.

I like monohulls because I feel closer to what I want to experience. I fault no one for wanting a different experience.

Again, as I said before, like an iceberg, I know nothing about you. You may be actively involved in your community helping the disadvantaged. I do not presume to judge you because of your choices. To do so would be just asinine.

As for your comments that I demean the value of other peoples input, while that would make for a boring one sided discussion if I were not open to the opinion of others. I never implied that you did grow up in a country that doesn't support free thinkers. Nor did I use the word bad.


I also remember this like it was yesterday.
Le Bon Voyage - Yachting World

And yes, I also remember the monohulls of the Fastnet 79 race.

Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion...Match the mono to the cat
AaaaR the monohull green card.
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Old 13-05-2015, 15:34   #28
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Re: Just for fun: Match the mono to the cat

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Originally Posted by FamilyVan View Post
Bluebhuda,

I like the direction you're going with this, but you seem to be more focused on different price points rather than different design goals.

For example: a C &C 40 isn't just a mid price point boat, but it's also distinctly racer/cruiser.

Beneteau first also a racer cruiser, very fast, but also comfortable.

Then in the same size range, A Hunter 38, not only is it likely to be a bit more affordable, but it doesn't have the racing ability of the above boats.

Then take a dog slow full bodied double ender like mine and you have an entirely different class of vessel (but not necessarily different price point). On topic I don't think their is a Cat equivalent of a full bodied double ender, the design philosophy is just so different for a cat. Imagine a 35' cat that weighed in at 24000 lbs, carried a metric ton of fresh water and half a ton of diesel? I'm not in any way anti cat, I could easily imagine myself in one in the future. For the time being though I like my bomb proof weatherly double ender (which coincidentally is a very very spacious and comfortable boat).

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Great point.

I wish there was a multidimentional graph that shows different common boats across the different relevant domains: Price, Racer vs. Cruiser, Coastal vs. Bluewater, Custom vs. Production. Etc. I am getting a good sense of the mono options thought :-)
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Old 13-05-2015, 16:10   #29
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Re: Just for fun: Match the mono to the cat

So often, these "cat threads" turn into some kind of argument about the seaworthiness of Cats (multis) vs. Monos.

To be clear: I like both types of boats and have had a lot of fun on cats and monos AND would own either (or a nice multi like a Dragonfly) and would enjoy cruising on either too.

Just today, I saw a cat that made me think: "WOW!"

I usually reserve that exclamation and adoration for a big 100+ foot LOA mono like a Perini Navi (one of my dream boats).

But today, I saw a catamaran that is in an entirely different level or league from the common (but nice) Lagoon, nicer Antares 44i, hyped Gunboat G4, or the old Piver or Cross.

So, to add to the earlier list of "match the boats" categories, I submit:

"Perini Navi" (megamono) = "Douce France" (megacat)

Here she is:

Catamaran 'Douce France' - Luxury sailing yacht charter

"Douce France"

LOA = 138'
Beam = 50'

Charter her for only EUR€100,000 per week!

Room for 12 guests.

Check out the size of the six guest staterooms and the size of the salon!

Quote from her page:
"With a total fore and aft sail area Qf 5,692 square foot, Douce France has the ability to sail at a constant 22 knots in a 28 knot breeze, and regularly achieves 15 knots in 20 knots of wind! Her twin diesel engines allow her to silently cruise at 12 knots under power. On Douce France however, speed is just one element... above all she is a cruising charter Superyacht and offers a lovely interior which is the essence of sobriety and elegance. Furniture of Mahogany and rosewood brings out a feel of colonial charm.

The windows on the massive main deckhouse provide 360 degree panoramic views for charter guests relaxing in the main lounge. She offers a 250 bottle wine cellar, with a selection of the world's most famous wines to be matched with fantastic cuisine."
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For example, this cat does not have a helipad, and you know how important one of those is to a real yacht.
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Old 13-05-2015, 18:43   #30
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Re: Just for fun: Match the mono to the cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach.80 to 8Kts View Post
OK, this is not meant to be an argument...
Firstly, yes we have differing philosophies on what we want from this world. I am going to assume that you place a high priority on comfort. As such, when you vacation on land you also travel in with a fifth wheel. That's fine. I bare no ill will for your choice. Please enjoy. This is just one piece of evidence that supports my demographic theory of cat owners. It is by no means a proof.

I, on the other hand, choose as a member of the global community to reduce my impact on this planet and try to consume less in my daily life; leave a smaller footprint on this planet for my children. I chose to live in a smaller house than I can afford. I chose to drive a smaller car as most of the time I am alone I the car. This by no means is an indication that I chose to be uncomfortable. Infact, I would argue that I am very comfortable when I compare myself to others in my own country, let alone around the world. I do not think my choice is morally or ethically superior than your choice.

I switched to whitewater canoeing for a while after being pinned underwater in my kayak. I was scared to get back in the Kayak for the longest time. I also did some whitewater rafting. Eventually, I returned to the Kayak because it was a closer experience to the whitewater. Sure the canoe was more comfortable but I liked the exhilaration of the Kayak.

I like monohulls because I feel closer to what I want to experience. I fault no one for wanting a different experience.

Again, as I said before, like an iceberg, I know nothing about you. You may be actively involved in your community helping the disadvantaged. I do not presume to judge you because of your choices. To do so would be just asinine.

As for your comments that I demean the value of other peoples input, while that would make for a boring one sided discussion if I were not open to the opinion of others. I never implied that you did grow up in a country that doesn't support free thinkers. Nor did I use the word bad.


I also remember this like it was yesterday.
Le Bon Voyage - Yachting World

And yes, I also remember the monohulls of the Fastnet 79 race.

Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion...Match the mono to the cat
Wow!!!!, you must really hate "mother earth". For single guy (or small family) to cut such a huge eco-foot print by maintaining a single family home when a studio apartment would suffice and then on top of that to add insult to injury, you have large sailing yacht...how horrible. While I keep my eco cards handy extolling the virtues of living a truly small eco-foot print by not constructing a huge structure to desecrate the earth.

Sorry but you most definitely were looking for an argument. In your original post you went on about how you had thick skin and could take it before anyone had so much as read your post.

Of course your whole rant is totally off topic.
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