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Old 17-06-2014, 16:25   #16
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Re: Just Bought a Sailing Dinghy...I need Advice

So here are a couple more photos, sorry some of them are turned on their sides and one is upside down. No idea why the uploaded that way since they are right way up on my laptop.


Photos:

1) The mainsheet setup on the boom

2) The shackle for the sail clew (end of boom)

3+4) I found the traveler rope and ring in the sail bag, I think this is more or less how its supposed to be set up.....?

5) The luff bottom of the sail

6) The luff top of the sail

The rope going through the eyes of the sail was like that when I bought it, I figured at first that it must be like that and there is just one single cleat on the mast (below the boom a couple of feet). I just cleated the rope going through the sail there. It was kind of a pain to have to cleat off that sail rope as well as the halyard....so thats when I really started to wonder about the whole system.

And yes I do have a daggerboard for the dinghy as well. I also found out that I need a cotter pin for my rudder as it floated out of the gudgeons as soon as I took my hand off the tiller, I managed to grab it before it floated off too far.
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Old 17-06-2014, 17:56   #17
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Re: Just Bought a Sailing Dinghy...I need Advice

So here is what I would do to get this bodge saililng.

Mainsheet - Start the rope by tying it at the lower ring - to the pulley if it has a ring like the top one (if not consider swapping the upper and lower pulleys) - else tie to ring. Take it up and run it through boom pulley. Take it down and run it through lower pulley - I wouldn't run it forward on the boom like you have it. You don't have a way it appears to cleat the mainsheet. Dinghy hardware is relatively cheap and you may consider replacing this later. Many sheet arrangements have a built in cleating on the lower block. After sailing a bit and feeling the boom loads you may end up wanting double upper and lower blocks for mechanical advantage. You may also consider buying a ring like the one at the mast and getting rid of the hose clamp thingie. You can drill the boom for the ring and use something like a #10 sheetmetal screws although through bolts would be more secure and not have a risk of working loose later.

Hard to see perspective but when/if you do that try to get the ring further back on the boom (over the traveller rope when centered if possible.

Traveller rope - This is a common arrangement. Needs to be a bit tighter - noy piano string tight or anything like that but maybe 2 inches of "bow" in the middle. That should sort the mainsheeting.

The luff - It's good to see the luff has eyelets. So you want a way to secure the eyelets to the mast and have it run up and down smoothly. My guess is the PO just "spiral wrapped the rope going through the eyelets around the mast and used a stopper knot.

What I would do is go buy some heavy duty zip ties. I would "loosely" put a zip tie around the mast - a zip tie for each eyelet. Leave about a 1/2" gap (or less) between zip tie and mast.

Now - remove the bolt rope from the eyelets. Start at one end and thread the rope through a zip tie, then and eyelet, through a zip tie and then and eyelet till you get to the top. You don't want to "cinch" the rope and scrunch up the sail - but you do want all the slack out of the rope. The first time you do this you might lay it flat on the grass so you know the luff is straight.

When you have it right you could mark the rope for next time.

If you wanted to spend some boat bucks you could buy a sail track and matching lugs and install that but for now the zip ties will work.

In fact with the halyard dropped - you could flake the sail and not have to rerig this very often. The key is to leave a small gap so the zip ties slide up the mast when you hoist.

Outhaul - You could simply tie the foot off after hauling tight but I would invest in a couple of really small pulleys so I could adjust the outhaul while underway.

Here's why - A "fat" sail (lot's of curve) is good for low speed power - good when you are in a choppy sea and the boat is being slowed by waves and you want it to accelerate quickly between wave. A fat sail has more drag so in smooth water you want a flat sail to minimize drag and maximize speed.

Imagine also there is a line projecting forward from the plane of the aft end of the sail to the fattest part near the front of the sail heading off to the front of the boat. A second line is made from the trailing edge to the leading edge - this describes an angle - the flat sail has a smaller angle - the fat sail has a bigger angle.

This angle describes (roughly) the steering accuracy you need to "catch" the wind in the sail. A fat sail has a big steering angle and a flat one has a narrow angle. So in choppy seas a fat sail = accelerate, big steering angles & slow top speed. Flat sail = higher top speed, narrow steering angle, point closer to the wind.

Some folks learn - improperly - that they sheet in hard, flatten the sail but the boat slows down. So they fatten the sail a bit and think they got it right. Then someone with the same boat passes them by on a beat because the are pointing higher and going faster. Then they think there must be something wrong with their boat.

Really they had it right, they just hadn't optimized the angle of attack and were making steering errors.

This is like 4th gear in your car also. You can't just flatten the sail, sheet in and point up. Racing texts often call this"shifting gears." You have to bear off the wind a few degrees, flatten the sail and as the boat accelerates point higher and keep sheeting until you are "in the groove." Then you have to stay there. Fall off the wind by pointing too high or low and you lose it and have to start over.

That usually happens in choppy seas or gusting conditions - it's too hard to steer that precisely so a fatter sail is needed at the sacrifice of top speed and pointing.

Good luck - Looking forward to pics on the water!
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Old 17-06-2014, 19:40   #18
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Re: Just Bought a Sailing Dinghy...I need Advice

The line you see threaded from one grommet to the other on the forward edge (luff) of the sail was probably meant to be laced onto the mast. You could take your mast and thread it through that line one side then the other and then stretch the halyard to hold the head of the sail to the top of the mast and then tighten the tack of the main down to the gooseneck.

Usually blocks are attached to masts and booms using bails instead of rings hose clamped or holes drilled through. That doesn't mean you can't sail it as is but that as you gain experience you might be getting better ideas and see different rigging on other boats that will spur you on to making your boat better.

I've seen main sheets tied to a block that is on the traveler aft then set through a block on the boom directly above the traveler block and then led forward along the boom then put through a block directly above midships where you would sit to control the boat and led down to your hand.

It certainly is a fine looking hull and once you get the rigging sorted out I'll bet it will sail great.

Try getting some closeup shots of other dinghies in advertisements or sailing videos or even instructional videos to see what other folks are doing.

kind regards,
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Old 17-06-2014, 19:47   #19
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Re: Just Bought a Sailing Dinghy...I need Advice

Hard to see the rigging in this little photo but you might be able to see the blocks on the boom where I led my sheet.
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Old 17-06-2014, 20:09   #20
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Re: Just Bought a Sailing Dinghy...I need Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post

I've seen main sheets tied to a block that is on the traveler aft then set through a block on the boom directly above the traveler block and then led forward along the boom then put through a block directly above midships where you would sit to control the boat and led down to your hand.
Ah, I've seen that also. Makes sense in this case because the mainsheet is currently tied to the boom pulley,

Therefore -

- From boom pulley ring
- down and through pulley on traveler rope
- back up through boom pulley
- forward along the boom to "mid-boom" pulley
- into skippers hand
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Old 17-06-2014, 21:13   #21
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Re: Just Bought a Sailing Dinghy...I need Advice

I'm thinking you might be missing the gaff boom.
Do you have another spar?
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Old 17-06-2014, 21:20   #22
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Re: Just Bought a Sailing Dinghy...I need Advice

There are no other pieces to the mast. Three pieces in total, top and bottom half of the mast, and the boom.
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Old 18-06-2014, 14:22   #23
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Re: Just Bought a Sailing Dinghy...I need Advice

Also, since my mast has three stays (about 2/3 the way up the mast) wouldn't it be impossible to raise or lower the sail all the way if I put zap straps through the eyes of the sail and around the mast? Or if I wound a rope in a spiral through the eyes and around the mast? I think the stays would be in the way no matter what DIY way I did it? I'm very open to suggestions obviously, haha.

I think I will need a mast track, one that is sectional because my mast is two seperate aluminum poles that fit together.
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Old 18-06-2014, 16:45   #24
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Re: Just Bought a Sailing Dinghy...I need Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada_Dan View Post
Also, since my mast has three stays (about 2/3 the way up the mast) wouldn't it be impossible to raise or lower the sail all the way if I put zap straps through the eyes of the sail and around the mast? Or if I wound a rope in a spiral through the eyes and around the mast? I think the stays would be in the way no matter what DIY way I did it? I'm very open to suggestions obviously, haha.

I think I will need a mast track, one that is sectional because my mast is two seperate aluminum poles that fit together.
If you thread your mast through the line on your luff it'll be laced. All you need to do is tighten it up. You'll do that before you raise your mast. You won't be able to raise and lower your sail or reef with it rigged that way but you'll be able to get underway on a day with 10k or less winds.

You can buy mast track to rivet onto your current mast or you can go to a boat yard and see if they have any small broken mast sections with it already built in. Or, you can order a whole new mast from Dyer. Then you'll have to shackle in slugs or slides on your mainsail luff to fit the slot on your mast.

Let us know what you find.

I'd like to see a photo of the boat with the sail attached to the mast, the boom attached to the mast and sail and the mainsheet rigged and the mast stepped. If you do take a photo with it fully rigged we could comment a little bit about how you've rigged it and make some suggestions. Obviously it is a DIY on the cheap using what parts were in the garage at the time. You can improve it.
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Old 18-06-2014, 16:50   #25
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Re: Just Bought a Sailing Dinghy...I need Advice

dyer dinghy sailboatdata thanks to sailboatdata is something that ex-cal and I suggest as to mainsheet rigging. You can see that this boat also has shrouds and a forestay. Maybe you can do a bit more searching for how the mast and sail are rigged.
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Old 18-06-2014, 16:52   #26
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Re: Just Bought a Sailing Dinghy...I need Advice

DYER DINK sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com is the link.
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Old 18-06-2014, 18:12   #27
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Re: Just Bought a Sailing Dinghy...I need Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada_Dan View Post
Also, since my mast has three stays (about 2/3 the way up the mast) wouldn't it be impossible to raise or lower the sail all the way if I put zap straps through the eyes of the sail and around the mast? Or if I wound a rope in a spiral through the eyes and around the mast? I think the stays would be in the way no matter what DIY way I did it? I'm very open to suggestions obviously, haha.

I think I will need a mast track, one that is sectional because my mast is two seperate aluminum poles that fit together.
Ahh - forgot about the stays...

I'm with Skipper John. I guess I would assemble the upper and lower mast, lace the sail on while the mast is laying down, tighten the halyard and step the mast.

This arrangement really makes the Halyard sort of useless - you can't raise and lower the sail because no lugs and to tighten the luff in this method you could just tighten it at the top and bottom prior to stepping. If it loosens up while sailing just tighten it at the tack with a downhaul.

If I were keeping the boat I'd be thinking about a sail track and lugs. If I just wanted to have some fun I'd go with what you got for a while and see if the investment makes sense.

Sailtrack on a two piece mast could also be a problem. The tracks will have to line up perfectly to make it work.
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Old 18-06-2014, 18:36   #28
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Re: Just Bought a Sailing Dinghy...I need Advice

It is essential that you have sails you can control or you could wind up in the drink. Put a stout tether on your rudder so it won't disappear in your wake if it comes off. Three stays means no back stay?
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Old 18-06-2014, 22:02   #29
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Re: Just Bought a Sailing Dinghy...I need Advice

Check out this forum:

Nominations for best 12' sailing dinghy design - Page 3

About 8 or 10 posts down, there are a few pictures of dinghy
sails.
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Old 19-06-2014, 01:04   #30
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Re: Just Bought a Sailing Dinghy...I need Advice

Kudos to Ex Calif, he's given you some really super input, Canada_Dan. And he says his boat's on the hard, and him wanting to re-do the electrical systems. Whooooeee!


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