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Old 26-12-2014, 18:46   #1
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Junk rigged schooner , Pros , Cons?

looking at a boat what would you do with this rigging ??
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Old 26-12-2014, 19:05   #2
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Re: Junk rigged schooner , Pros , Cons ??

They're very practical, economical, & easy to handle. Both from a trimming standpoint, as well as tuning the amount of canvas one's flying at any given time. Plus the loads on everything are FAR lower than on pretty much anything.
Their biggest drawback(s) are that they tend to be slower, regardless of what kind of hull they're on/in. And they're not as close winded as many other types of rigs.

That said, my neighbor on the moorings, had a Colvin Gazelle, & sailed it all over the world, with & without her other half. They're nice, practical & comfortable designs.
Annie Hill also sings their praises in her book Voyaging on a Small Income which is worth the read, whether or not you are curious about junk rigged vessels.

I think that there's a Junk Rigged Association, if you're curious to pursue it further. Plus of course books on the topic. And blogs of boats rigged thusly. The one which comes to mind is about/by the boat S/v Willow.

Quite honestly, they're very tempting to me. The only catch being, is that I've gotten spoiled, speed wise, after many decades of racing some of the top boats out there. But who knows, maybe I'll "convert".
I surely did like my neighbor's Gazelle, & it was amazingly light & shallow draft, given that it was steel. Primo interior layout, storage, & room for carrying gear too. Truly a voyaging boat.

Hope that helps.
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Old 26-12-2014, 19:39   #3
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Re: Junk rigged schooner , Pros , Cons ??

ok thanks the schooner is a Colvin
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Old 26-12-2014, 20:25   #4
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Re: Junk rigged schooner , Pros , Cons ??

We bilt and sailed a Colvin Schooner for over 18 yrs. As far as we are concerned the junk rig is the only way to go !! As far as speed go's we seemed to make as good or faster passages than the other boats we met along the way! The ease of sail handleing makes it worthwhile !! raise, shorten, trim, all simple and easy to do even for small folks!! ( like Connie and our girls lol) And Ive never seen where trying to beat into a wind is better then sailing a tack or to to cover the same distance ! but then Im never in a hurry !! just my 2 cents
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Old 26-12-2014, 21:38   #5
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Re: Junk rigged schooner , Pros , Cons ??

Bob and Uncivilized have given some good info on the rig.

I have been looking into this kind of rig because I ind them appealing.

Here is a link to a web site about a young Australian couple that has extensively sailed a junk rigged boat Teleport, in high arctic.

Their boat is now for sale too.

I found their comments on their experience with the rig interesting. I will post a few quote clips here below, but recommend you see their site as they have very nice photos and content on their boat refit and travels.
--------

Teleport
Teleport Expeditions - Chris Bray & Jess Taunton

"Why would anyone use a 'Junk-Rig'?
Because they are awesome! "Sail enthusiasts all over the world are showing an increasing interest in the Chinese, or 'junk', rig. This is because the rig is incomparably safe (no deck work required), seamanlike, and easy to handle. It is particularly suitable for small boats and for short-handed or family sailing, in open water and in unpredictable weather conditions." (From 'Practical Junk Rig'). While only tacking through 90deg, when hard into the wind the optimum sheeting angle leaves a junk rig's sail further out, resulting in the yacht not being blown downwind so much and thus, over the long haul, we can track with less leeway than a conventional rig to windward, and as mentioned above, a junk is actually far superior to conventional rigs at reaching and running due to her large sail area and unrestricted boom positioning (we can set the boom & sail out at 90deg!). Apart from the classic fan-shaped sail, the other interesting thing about a junk-rig is that the mast is free standing - it does not have any rigging! Pretty cool hey! And as far as junk rig's go, the 'North Atlantic 29' is the ultimate - it has a real pedigree! Read on...

....back in the 60's, when sailor 'Blondie' Hasler challenged Sir Francis Chichester to the first ever 'Observer Single-handed TransAtlantic Race' (OSTAR). Blondie converted his little yacht - a Nordic Folkboat called Jester – into to a junk rig, which proved amazingly easy and safe to handle. Jester famously crossed the Atlantic Ocean fourteen times, and Blondie spent the last 20 years of his life carefully refining the principles behind junk rig sailing, ultimately co-writing “Practical Junk Rig” – formally introducing the traditional junk rig to modern yacht design." (END OF CLIP)
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Old 27-12-2014, 09:25   #6
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Re: Junk rigged schooner , Pros , Cons ??

I sail a junk rigged Colvin Gazelle and have no complaints other than after sailing a junk, modern rigs seem unnecessarily complicated and hard to handle.

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Old 27-12-2014, 19:04   #7
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Re: Junk rigged schooner , Pros , Cons ??

Also worth mentioning is how low maintenance free standings masts are.
Many of the items in the "cost of maintenance" threads here on CF are about the high cost and frequency of rigging replacement. Depending on material, free standings masts need very little maintenance.
I'm a member of the Junk Rig Association, and as a fellow JRA member put it "c'mon folks, the stays came off aeroplanes in the 1920's, get with the times!"
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Old 27-12-2014, 22:13   #8
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Re: Junk rigged schooner , Pros , Cons ??

Bermudan rig vs Junk rig - Practical Boat Owner
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Old 29-12-2014, 16:02   #9
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Re: Junk rigged schooner , Pros , Cons ??

thanks for the feed back
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Old 29-12-2014, 16:23   #10
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Re: Junk rigged schooner , Pros , Cons ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Skipmac,

Thanks for posting that link. I had not seen that article before, and found the direct comparison of two boats (using the same model of boat, with same hull, but different rigs) was very interesting.

Here are just a few of the points that caught my attention:

"Our first head-to-head comparison proved what previous experience led us to expect: the Bermudan rig is faster upwind and the junk performs better downwind (unless the Bermudan boat flies a spinnaker).

Another point to bear in mind is that differences in ease of handling become more pronounced as size and wind increase, so comparisons with small boats in light airs tend to hand the advantage to the Bermudan rig. Single-handed in a gale on a 35-footer, the junk’s simplicity would undoubtedly be more apparent."


Reading the article, the examples of the simplicity of sail adjustment (or reefing) on different points of sail were nicely described.
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Old 29-12-2014, 16:52   #11
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Re: Junk rigged schooner , Pros , Cons?

I'd leave it as is!
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Old 29-12-2014, 17:13   #12
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Re: Junk rigged schooner , Pros , Cons ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
Skipmac,

Thanks for posting that link. I had not seen that article before, and found the direct comparison of two boats (using the same model of boat, with same hull, but different rigs) was very interesting.

Here are just a few of the points that caught my attention:

"Our first head-to-head comparison proved what previous experience led us to expect: the Bermudan rig is faster upwind and the junk performs better downwind (unless the Bermudan boat flies a spinnaker).

Another point to bear in mind is that differences in ease of handling become more pronounced as size and wind increase, so comparisons with small boats in light airs tend to hand the advantage to the Bermudan rig. Single-handed in a gale on a 35-footer, the junk’s simplicity would undoubtedly be more apparent."


Reading the article, the examples of the simplicity of sail adjustment (or reefing) on different points of sail were nicely described.
Thanks. When I first read that I thought it was a great comparison between the two rigs and gave an excellent analysis and summary of the pluses and minuses of each.

Like everything (well maybe almost everything) on a boat, it's a compromise. Get easier sail handling, loose a little windward performance. Faster here, slower there, etc.
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Old 29-12-2014, 17:37   #13
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Re: Junk rigged schooner , Pros , Cons?

I too found the article interesting, and the junk rig did just about what one would expect from a modernized version. The ease of handling, if it extrapolates up to a larger boat, would be desirable for sure, and many cruisers don't spend much time sailing to windward anyway! (I do find windward performance important, though, for our style of cruising).

I wish they had done one other comparison: At deep angles, junk vs poled out headsail w/w with main on the sloop, rather than just against the sloop with a kite or with a blanketed genoa. This to me is more representative of how cruisers in Bermudan sloops sail those angles when at sea.

I'm sure that this will bring howls from "Junkies", but on the few occasions that we have sailed in company with similar sized junk rigged boats they have not performed very well at all. Not a good statistic, but it does tend to warp my appreciation for the rig. In fairness I must point out that most junk rigs are not paired with performance oriented hull shapes, so the data is a bit skewed.

All in all, that article was a lot more useful than most of the crap that is published in mags!

Jim
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Old 29-12-2014, 19:17   #14
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Re: Junk rigged schooner , Pros , Cons?

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
I too found the article interesting, and the junk rig did just about what one would expect from a modernized version. The ease of handling, if it extrapolates up to a larger boat, would be desirable for sure, and many cruisers don't spend much time sailing to windward anyway! (I do find windward performance important, though, for our style of cruising).
The ease of handling from this article and reports from those with junk rigged boats seems to be the biggest plus. However, like you I value windward performance and am unwilling to sacrifice this unless the loss is very minimal and the gains elsewhere dramatic. I learned to sail based in south Florida and it's just a fact of life that you're going to be beating to windward one way or the other unless you limit your trips to north and south up the FL coast.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
I wish they had done one other comparison: At deep angles, junk vs poled out headsail w/w with main on the sloop, rather than just against the sloop with a kite or with a blanketed genoa. This to me is more representative of how cruisers in Bermudan sloops sail those angles when at sea.
Same here. I wonder why they limited the downwind sail plan on the Bermuda rigged boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
All in all, that article was a lot more useful than most of the crap that is published in mags!
Must be because there were no advertisers with a vested interest in the outcome of the test.
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Old 29-12-2014, 19:42   #15
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Re: Junk rigged schooner , Pros , Cons?

Another comment about the junk rig:

While the above deck simplicity of unstayed masts is appealing, on all such boats that I have visited (all bermudan rigs), the support structure for the foot of the mast is extensive and would not be easy to retrofit in existing conventional rig boats. It is pretty intrusive into the accommodation. All of the vessels that I have seen have been cat boats, ie the mast is well forward so that the lost space is in the foc'sle area. In a typical sloop or cutter, the mast is near station 4 or 5 and the support stuff would wipe out much of the saloon area's habitability. I suspect this would rule out converting many cruising boats to the junk rig, but not sure... maybe it could be done!

Jim
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