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Old 20-08-2015, 12:03   #1
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Jib Line catching on shroud

I have a 1974 CT-41 that I've been lovingly refitting for a Mexico cruise this Fall. All's going well however regardless of my various adjustments of the track sliders the jib lines always seem to hang up on the shrouds when tacking requiring me to go forward and help them around. I've retied the bowlines as small as I can get them. Any suggestions re how I might improve this frustrating problem would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 20-08-2015, 12:32   #2
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Re: Jib Line catching on shroud

Just wait a bit or jog the helm. You got your knots going the right way?
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Old 20-08-2015, 12:41   #3
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Re: Jib Line catching on shroud

Take 2 lengths of PVC pipe about 8 or 10 feet each. Split them lengthwise using a dremel or better yet a table saw if you have access to one. Use a screwdriver to open up the split for the first bit and then work it onto the shroud covering it and able to spin freely.

The pipe acts like a roller, eliminating chafe on the sail and allowing it to move much more easily from side to side. I found it necessary to put a strip of tape over the split otherwise the wind causes it to whistle in an annoying way.

The same thing works very nicely on the forward lifelines (or any lifelines for that matter) to allow easy retrieval of a spinnaker or other sail from over the side, and reduces chafe wherever a line goes over the top of a lifeline. if you have a baby stay or inner headstay, put some on there as well to help a headsail roll over it.

For a line that catches underneath a toggle where a shroud attaches to a chainplate, just use a bigger piece of PVC, work it onto the shroud first and then slide it down over the turnbuckle, toggle and chainplate. Just make sure that water can drain freely out of the bottom otherwise you will end up with salt water trapped in there and it will accelerate corrosion.
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Old 20-08-2015, 13:04   #4
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Re: Jib Line catching on shroud

First off, those sliders you mention are for managing the shape of your sail. The more forward they are, the more vertically the jib sheets will pull on the sail, the more aft, the more horizontally they will pull. But you can probably ignore that for a bit while you are just getting your feet wet (hopefully not literally, snort.)

Having your jib sheets tied to the sail with a bowline is your real issue. Just replace them with one single sheet, long enough for the port + stbd sheets, and secure it to the sail with a "cow hitch". Google it. Its nice and low profile and won't get caught up in your rigging.
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Old 20-08-2015, 13:35   #5
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Re: Jib Line catching on shroud

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Originally Posted by chris95040 View Post
First off, those sliders you mention are for managing the shape of your sail. The more forward they are, the more vertically the jib sheets will pull on the sail, the more aft, the more horizontally they will pull. But you can probably ignore that for a bit while you are just getting your feet wet (hopefully not literally, snort.)

Having your jib sheets tied to the sail with a bowline is your real issue. Just replace them with one single sheet, long enough for the port + stbd sheets, and secure it to the sail with a "cow hitch". Google it. Its nice and low profile and won't get caught up in your rigging.
Chris has the best solution I know of. This is not just a problem with your boat. On the larger sailboats we have what are called "widowmakers" which are bullet blocks which must pass the stays as well. You get hit with one of them, and you're not right for awhile!
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Old 20-08-2015, 13:48   #6
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Re: Jib Line catching on shroud

Replacing jib sheets to use a cow hitch is a very expensive way to do something that may not be necessary. Eventually you'll want to end-for-end the lines, so ya gotta cut 'em anyway, right?

Consider buntline hitches instead of the bowline.

Consider holding the jib and letting it backwind a little before releasing it even in light air.

Good luck. You'll get there.

Disclaimer: I've been using bowlines for 17 years on this boat, 16 years on other boats before that. Maybe sailing in heavy air most of the time makes a difference, but I never had that problem. Our largest jib is a 110. Bigger jibs seems to exhibit this issue more often.
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Old 20-08-2015, 13:50   #7
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Re: Jib Line catching on shroud

One piece sheets and a cow hitch was my solution as well.
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Old 20-08-2015, 13:54   #8
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Re: Jib Line catching on shroud

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Originally Posted by chris95040 View Post
secure it to the sail with a "cow hitch". Google it. Its nice and low profile and won't get caught up in your rigging.
Personally i don't like having a single sheet. Sometime it's nice to be able to detach one while keeping the other active. Cow hitches also tend to cinch really tight over time, scrunching up the clew of the sail and making them really hard to get off. You also have to re-run your jib sheets every time you change sails, which can be a pain in the arse and downright dangerous at sea. It works fine on a lightweight j24, or even a larger, modern, main-driven boat but with a big old genoa-driven boat it can be a real issue. Just personal preference of course. An altenative if you don't like the PVC idea is to put splices in the ends of your jib sheets, make up a couple of soft shackles and use these to attach them to the clew of the sail.
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Old 20-08-2015, 14:06   #9
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Re: Jib Line catching on shroud

For the OP:

The downside to the PVC pipe is the extra windage.

The downsides to the cow hitch are mentioned above: jamming, plus lack of flexibility, plus replacement costs.

The solution mentioned above, eye splices, and soft shackles gives you the best of both worlds...and slightly softens the blow you'd get from the clew-s/s shackle combo.

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Old 20-08-2015, 14:12   #10
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Re: Jib Line catching on shroud

I personally have never liked a single sheet except on very small boats. I always splice eye's in each end of a new sheet and use shackles. These days however I have been using soft shackles instead of stainless for everything.
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Old 20-08-2015, 14:17   #11
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Re: Jib Line catching on shroud

Quote:
Consider buntline hitches instead of the bowline.
While quite secure, the Buntline will, after being loaded up a while, jam such that a knife is the only way to remove the sheet (personal experience to back up that statement).

The Dyneema soft shackle is a great way to address the issue, but before we became aware of them, I used eye splices in the ends of the sheets and a bow shackle to attach them to the clew. Many CFers have argued that this is dangerous, saying that the shackle could cause injury if it hit you while flogging. Our genoas have all had large stainless D or O rings in the clews, and I felt that the addition of the shackle didn't change the danger of being struck very much... something to be avoided in all events!

At any rate, there are several better ways of attachment than big lumpy bowlines, especially with long tails hanging out!

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Old 20-08-2015, 14:26   #12
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Re: Jib Line catching on shroud

Been there, done that and have the T-shirt 😄

Ann is correct about PVC besides it gets brittle. There are much smaller plastic tubing arrangements not much bigger than your shrouds that may be an option.

Knots are important, I always used a simple bowline until I realized it could be tied two ways. One for port sheet and one for starboard. I also tried the continuous sheet. Once with a cow hitch, next with different line, a Brummell splice, and even two double braid splices. Obviously I did all this experimenting before finding this forum. 👍

The only thing that worked was tying the bowlines correctly and modifying my tacking technique a bit. As some have suggested backwinding the jib a bit so that when the clew comes about it does so with some authority would be my suggestion. In light wind you might have fall off a bit to build a little speed.

Try some of these suggestions, modify to your own situation and get back to us. Not only us but other members with similar problems could benefit.

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Old 20-08-2015, 14:45   #13
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Re: Jib Line catching on shroud

Use a single line sheet with a Brummel splice at the sail clew. This is an example but you'll have equal length ends and leave out burying the tail.

http://www.animatedknots.com/brummel...Categ=splicing

Just pass each tail through the other and you are done. Solved all issues that I had with knots hanging up on the shrouds. Now tacking is just a matter of releasing sheet on one side and pulling it in on the other, never a hang up. Worked great and doesn't try and pull through which was a concern I had when I first did it. Used it on my furling genoa and no problems even with 10 straight days on the same tack to Hawaii.

Hate spliced sheets with shackles. Actually hate any line with a shackle. Have the scars to prove why. Waste of money for the shackles and the damn things hurt like hell when they hit you, and they will, in the head or other parts on a flogging sail.
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Old 20-08-2015, 14:52   #14
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Re: Jib Line catching on shroud

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Hate spliced sheets with shackles. Waste of money for the shackles and the damn things hurt like hell when they hit you, and they will, in the head or other parts on a flogging sail.
Try soft shackles instead. getting hit with them is like being clocked in the head with a pillow case.
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Old 20-08-2015, 15:01   #15
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Re: Jib Line catching on shroud

I'm looking into soft shackles myself. I like that you can make your own, too.
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