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Old 11-01-2013, 22:32   #1
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Jeanneau 45 or 49?


Hello All,

Just to set the scenario, I live in Melbourne Australia and unfortunately don't get to see or crawl over the range and size of yachts others living OT can. I have been sailing on a Bavaria 40 in bay racies and cruising down to Tasmania but my partner and I think it is about time we start living our own lives a bit more. Her kids and 28+ and my son is 24.

So we are looking at purchasing a boat in the Mediterranean middle of the year and leaving it there for a year or so (flying over for 3-6 months then back to work) and then eventually bring it home (could be via AOC Rally??) and then continue cruising east coast of Oz, Pacific etc and then even possibly live aboard from then on. We are both around 60 and pretty fit and want to enjoy ourselves before they whell us off into a home (a quick warning, it WON'T happen).

Getting back to my point above, I don't get to see or compare many boats although our club has a number of Bene's up to 45'. Looking at the reviews, what's available, fitout etc the one brand that sticks out (from this distance) as giving us both what we like is the Jeanneau.

A couple of things we are taking into consideration are:
- we are likely to have family and friends come and stay/cruise with us
- we want something to call 'home' with a bit of space.

Now getting to the crux, I am looking at either the 45' & 49' Jeanneau with furling main, bowthruster and hopefully electric halyard and sheet winches to make life easier for us.

You have had a lot more short handed sailing and cruising experience then we have but I was hoping to get some thoughts of the pro's & con's of both.

I have seen a 49' that has genset, wate rmaker, bowthruster etc and being that size could fit them in and still have plenter of locker space available. Or am I dreaming and two of us couldn't cope with a boat that size?

Cheers

Chris
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Old 11-01-2013, 22:45   #2
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Re: Jeanneau 45 or 49?

Is cost a consideration?

If it is how good are your maintenance skills and what age range boat are you considering?
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Old 11-01-2013, 22:51   #3
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Re: Jeanneau 45 or 49?

Thanks Boracay,

We are looking around EU100,00 mark for a boat built around 2004-06. As far as maintenance goes, I have beem an IT keyboard pusher but do have a diesel maint course lined up.

Cheers
Chris
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Old 11-01-2013, 23:33   #4
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Re: Jeanneau 45 or 49?

The Jeanneau Sun Odyssey could be out of your price range.

As an AP you'd appreciate the importance of getting all the analysis done before you push the Go button. Having at least 50% of the purchase price in hand for getting the show going is necessary and my experience is that 100% may not be overdoing it, even with a perfect survey.

There are few big boat owners on this forum and most of those would own older and/or custom boats. I'm sure if you hunt round you'll find user groups that may have better information.

Without knowing your experience it's hard to offer more specific advice. I've a 44' Roberts steel so from my perspective and experience you'd really want to go for the shallow draft models. The 44' is plenty big enough for my wife and myself. The production boats are much bigger on the inside so if a smaller boat fits your needs it could make sense.

My other major perspective is that you probably don't want to be doing more than routine maintenance on an engine so a newer boat with low hours on the engine would be preferred.

A quick search did not turn up many Jeanneaus so including Beneteaus would give a much bigger pool to draw on.
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Old 12-01-2013, 00:13   #5
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Re: Jeanneau 45 or 49?

Hi Chris, at a guess you'd have to be Sandringham based? I was there last weekend on Saturday trolling the marina in the inflatable and it seems there must have been a fire sale on Benetau's, there are SO many of them there! Not just Sandringham either. I like your plan. Don't leave it much later or you'll regret it. When my parents hit your age and I was similar to your kids, they were off enjoying themselves on cruises and the like. 60 is not too old for this kind of adventure you have a LONG time to live, hey it's not even retirement age here.
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:36   #6
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Re: Jeanneau 45 or 49?

That sounds like a great plan. There should be quite a choice in Italy and Greece - you might even get an ex-charter (some major pros and cons of course with that) due to the crisis in the Euro Zone - Greece, Italy and Spain in particular

There is a lot about Jeanneau's at www.jeanneau-owners.com, so you could ask existing owners of the 45 and 49 what to look out for etc
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:37   #7
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Re: Jeanneau 45 or 49?

Hi Boracay, yeah sorry I should have upped that anount to be up to 120000 Euro and there appears to be a fair selection available. When push comes to shove will also look at the Beneteau's, Bavaria's and Elan's as fall back. Even at that price it will leave me with some $'s in hand for maintenance and stuff. Will definitely be looking at low hours on the engine. I am making up a spreadsheet with requirements noted as mandatory or optional. Another thought would be to trade down to something when we get back home as the price of yachts down here, like everything else, is so inflated and we might get something happening if we find either the 45 or 49 too big as we get older.

Hey ausaviator - good get!!! What were you doing down there? Do you live down here? Saturday we were on our way back from Stanley in Tas. My mate who owns the boat and I took our two partners for a cruise to Phillip Island, then down to Beauty Point and Stanley. It was their first time our the Heads and across the paddock.

I get tired of seeing all the Bene's there - the boys at Sundance Marine do a great job with so many First's and Oceanis!

I was initially thinking get something smaller and build up but Jennifer said "Just Do It' before we do get too old and regret it. She also said that at our stage of life let's not take something because we can - hence she wants something light and airy inside with light upholstery and a great swim platform as well as a workable galley and comfortable bed!

I like the sound of your parents LOL
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:51   #8
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Re: Jeanneau 45 or 49?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flacky View Post

I have seen a 49' that has genset, wate rmaker, bowthruster etc and being that size could fit them in and still have plenter of locker space available. Or am I dreaming and two of us couldn't cope with a boat that size?

Cheers

Chris
Sounds like a great plan. Big boats are easy to sail and would not be concerned about handling the larger boat.
My only concern is very complex older boats do have a lot of breakdowns. It's difficult to find reliable people in much of the Med to make the necessary repairs.
BTW I bought my first yacht from Sundance marine over 20 years ago when it was run by Ken Wilson.
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Old 12-01-2013, 02:58   #9
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Re: Jeanneau 45 or 49?

Look for something marked " tax not paid ". You get a 20% leg up on the European buyers because you don't care about paying VAT. Bidding for such boats is rarely spirited. Look in non VAT places such as Croatia.

Here's one.

2000 Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 45.2 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale
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Old 12-01-2013, 03:39   #10
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Re: Jeanneau 45 or 49?

G'day Serica they were the places I was thinking and not too adverse to ex-charter and then the private owners have to drop their prices to get somewhere near the charter fleets. I wil chase up with the Jeanneau users - thanks for reminding me

Nolex77 thanks for your reply and the bit about sailing bigger boats. yes I want to make sure it is in good condition and so will give myself a couple of seasons day sailing the Med to get everything in good order.

I sailed at Sandy back in the 80's on a 1/4 tonner called Limpid Lizard when all the Nolex 25's were coming in - were you there then??

Hi Savoir that VAT bit was on my 'mandatory' requirements. Why pay VAT there and bring it back to Oz and then pay GST? There are some bargains to be had there if you have cash to spend.

That looks a nice boat and there are also a few 49' over there in Croatia,Italy and Israel with a lot of extra gear.
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Old 12-01-2013, 03:51   #11
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Re: Jeanneau 45 or 49?

The ex-charter boats if bought immediately out of the fleet should be available without VAT as an option as commercial firms will not have paid the VAT .
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Old 12-01-2013, 04:19   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serica
The ex-charter boats if bought immediately out of the fleet should be available without VAT as an option as commercial firms will not have paid the VAT .
I wouldn't over sweat the VAT its usually depreciated out of the second hand price by this time. My preference would be to buy a private boat. The charter models often crammed in extra berths and heads to the detriment of the design.

You can't go wrong with Jeanneau, have a look at the DS range , especially the version previous to the current one, you might squeeze that into the budget. There very good sea boats , but with easily handled rigs, good aft bed and usual light and airy insides. Typically yanmar or volvo engine, don't worry about low hours, diesels prefer to be worked , anything under 2000 hours has plenty of life left. I ve sailed a good few jeaneaus over the years. They were often fitted with " performance" packs , so look for the ones with Harken deck gear. The nature of DS buyers often meant powered winches etc.

Getting a good boat in the 45-50 foot for 100,000 euros will be a challenge. Despite the hype, the Euro has remained high and the " crisis " is very " last year " I certainly don't notice too many bargains. Private owners pricing will never compete with charters its a different boat.

I'd suggest 45 is an excellent size for two. It's also under the 15 metre mark, as many marinas charge a a lot more above 15 , there are various DS,s over the years from 42 up. I delivered a 42 to Greece recently, nice fast boat, easily handled.

Despite other comments , I've found its not difficult to get work done, the main yachting centres all around Europe are very familiar with these types of boats and most countries will have several Jeanneau dealers as well. Some of the big marinas in Greece are well setup to handle work now. Typically you may have to replace dodgers, spray hoods etc.

Dave
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Old 12-01-2013, 04:30   #13
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Re: Jeanneau 45 or 49?

Yes, that's how I am seeing it also. There are also 'private' yachts bought by companies that they are now trying to off-load and the VAT hasn't been paid. I believe you can keep a yacht in EU countries for up to 2 years before having to pay VAT but need to confirm .

I have spoken to a contact who is across the market over there and said you can up to 10% off the advertised price , which would be a bonus.
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Old 12-01-2013, 04:39   #14
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Re: Jeanneau 45 or 49?

Hi Dave, thank you for your excellent comments, I still have about 6 months until we are ready to pull the trigger and so it is just working through those manufacturers and models we like and this is where the Jeannuea's are coming out in front. Yes I have seen many ex-charter boats with 4 heads for pete's sake....

What years would equate to the previous model?

Tell me, if you know, with the removable bulkheads, can you store them onboard or are the too big?

Funny, we are just sitting back listening to Jow Cocker and the thought about higher costs for a 49 footer came into my head also LOL

Cheers

Chris
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Old 12-01-2013, 05:05   #15
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Originally Posted by Flacky
Hi Dave, thank you for your excellent comments, I still have about 6 months until we are ready to pull the trigger and so it is just working through those manufacturers and models we like and this is where the Jeannuea's are coming out in front. Yes I have seen many ex-charter boats with 4 heads for pete's sake....

What years would equate to the previous model?

Tell me, if you know, with the removable bulkheads, can you store them onboard or are the too big?

Funny, we are just sitting back listening to Jow Cocker and the thought about higher costs for a 49 footer came into my head also LOL

Cheers

Chris
The square window versions around pre 2005 ( I think ) , rather then the later eyebrow types. The 43DS is very nice, better chart table then later models. , good L galley , double bunk forward and V berth cabins are tight better as one cabin.

I've always seen the bulkheads stored out of the boat, really with two people your never going to need them , though having said that there were useful in long trips as it made two nice sea berths out of the aft cabin.

As to private boats in charter. There are all sorts of combinations, some are PO boats VAT paid that are put into charter. Theses are essentially treated like PO boats. There are versions bought in without VAT. Etc. note that a private company with a VAT liability may not sell it to You VAT free unless you export the boat within a defines period. ( Usually 90 days) Many will ask you to pay them the VAT as a bond and return it to you when you send proof of export back to the seller. ( this is the way the VAT authorities want it done ) so be prepared for a cash flow hit and potentially an ESCROW situation in regards VAT.

You can keep a boat in the EU once your a non resident for 18 months vat not paid. It can be renewed by spending one day outside the EU.

All the usual provisions re surveys of course apply. Generally you can get UK English speaking surveyors all over the med. see the YBDSA

Dave
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