Jan Haring Question

[messias]

Hi there,

Despite of what most of you may "throw" at me, I have to confess that I always "fall in love" with...a good looking STEEL boat (that was the "throwing part) and I came across one that I found absolutely lovely, and with a considerable reputation for cruising everywhere!
JAN HARING is the name.
I don´t know anything about this boat, but from what i could find, it came in all sorts of sizes which differ less than 1mt between them (or it´s just typo´s on the adds?)

Can anybody shed a light on these boats on their capabilities?

Ahoy,
Messias.

[messias]

What?...
100 views and nobody even heard about them?

I´m sad now...

[sy_gilana]

Rare and KICK-ASS boats, also do Aluminum. Cant go far wrong in one of them, she will look after you if you look after her.

[Orchidius]

Jan Haring is a dutch name, some war-hero who fought the Spanish. Many things were named after him in the Netherlands, the boat being one of them. There is a fair bit of info to be found, but most all in Dutch sadly enough. One blog I just read makes note of 30 made, after which the wharf went bankrupt.

They scream ocean worthiness though, and every single one I was able to locate with some quick searches online has made extensive voyages with all of their owners. Just not the type of boat you buy to play with along the shores of your home-waters...

[messias]

Wow...

I think I have potentially found my "Ice-breaker"

The more I read on it (even with lousy translations), the more I get convinced. Do you know of any "similar" boats? (metal, hard, very seaworthy, not bigger than 10m...and not necessarily a stunning beauty)

Ahoy,
Messias

[Orchidius]

Here's some pictures of mine:

https://allurezeiljacht.wordpress.com/afbeeldingen/

Beauty lays in the eye of the beholder, but she's certainly fit for ocean sailing .

Before the 60's yachts were primarily made of wood and steel. Handforged and welded. They were drawn up by and known for the designer, the warf was just the company the good metal/woodworkers worked for. When larger scale production began with the introduction of molds that could produce a hull a day, it became a financial disaster to build them the old way.

There were production lines producing steel boats, but to keep construction fast and cheap they were little more then straight steel plates welded to a frame. They float and sail alright in inland waters and fair weather, but aren't fit for offshore sailing.

Rare exeptions exist, like your newfound love, but sadly the shipyards don't seem to last long enough to keep producing them.

Long story short, the type of boat you're looking for is most likely going to be a one-of by a (well known) naval architect, or by a wharf that wasn't around long enough to make enough boats to become well known. Option two only making them slightly less rare then the first. They're more common in some places then other, as are fiberglass production boats. Some of the brands that are popular and fairly common in the US are near impossible to source where I live in Belgium. I had good luck looking in The Netherlands. Always the seafaring nation, sailing is very common there. Lots of sailing enthusiasts, lots of shipyards. Lots of shipyards, lots of good naval architects. Mine is a Baron von Hoevell, to give you an idea. There are quite a few websites/books/associations dedicated to this type of boats.

A little word of caution though... Often very old, they haven't always been cared for as they should. It is rare to find one that doesn't have at least some problems with rust or the interior. It is not uncommon to discover a problem that was hard to find/see and that has been able to develop for some time. A seemingly small issue can turn into a big one in a hurry when you start digging. Causing a lot of time-consuming, expensive work. Having to break up a teak deck sitting on top of a steel deck that has been given the time to rust plain through to replace the whole deck is a prime example...

[hpeer]

I have one of these. Ted Brewer design. This one has been for sale for a long time with a significant price drop. I don't know what the issue is. The hulls were welded up fine and the interiors then owner finished.

1984 Murray Custom Built Steel Cutter Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I just saw your location. Perhaps a bit far for a casual inspection.

How much you looking to spend? What size boat?

[messias]

Originally Posted by Orchidius

Here's some pictures of mine:

https://allurezeiljacht.wordpress.com/afbeeldingen/

Beauty lays in the eye of the beholder, but she's certainly fit for ocean sailing .

But you do have a pretty boat

Thanks for the info and update on that "beauty and beast" (and for the sad reminder on how boats are no longer built). I really think that´s the kind of boat I could put my €€´s in...
Can you point me into some of those websites on these kind of boats?
Thank you.

Hpeer...yes, an inspection is kind of "out"
The kind of boat I am looking for is actually something like "the beauty" up there. For sizes, I´m thinking on something around 30 (give or take a few feet) and as for $$, a buying price under 15.000€ (euros) and between 5 to 7 more on repairs and refit.
This is a "long-term project", since i´m still building miles and more experience (actually never handled anything with more than 1ton )

Am I being naive on the refitting budget (assuming the hull is sound and no major structural repairs needed...) ?


Ahoy,
Messias.

[hpeer]

Am I being naive on the refitting budget (assuming the hull is sound and no major structural repairs needed...) ?

Yes and no. That will get you on the water well enough.

But the outlay never stops. There is always more to do.

[messias]

That´s what i need. Get started!

I know it´s a almost dumb question, but can you give me some "estimation" on how much is your "average" maintenance troughout one year (just the "normal" things on your steel boat)?
without insurances or other stuff.... I mean just the materials to get your hands on and do it yourself?

[Orchidius]

I'm still refitting my boat, so atm I'm sinking your estimated 5-7k into her. However, because she had seen better days I paid but 6k for her, and she had just had a hull screening to check for weak spots and an engine overhaul.

Those are the things you have to look for. An engine that hasn't been properly cared for and that needs a full overhaul will cost 4-6k. And I had one rusted through-hull valve that cost as much to have repaired then re-painting the entire cabin and hull. Sanding and re-varnishing all the woodwork on her (and that's a ton) cost the better part of the year and quite some buckets of elbowgrease, but only 120€ in varnish and sandpaper.

If you can do most or all the work yourself and do frequent maintenance and checks, maintaining steel boats can be veryvery cheap (cheaper then the platic kind imo). Getting them to the point where you're just doing maintenance instead of refitting is the dreadful part .

To give you an idea, doing virtually everything myself I reckon the final tally is going to be 10-15k € for a totally refitted ocean worthy boat with a self-sufficient electrical system, and all the safetygear you can think of. She's not very big though, 29ft.

[messias]

Originally Posted by Orchidius

Sanding and re-varnishing all the woodwork on her (and that's a ton) cost the better part of the year and quite some buckets of elbowgrease, but only 120€ in varnish and sandpaper.

(...) She's not very big though, 29ft.

29ft is more than enough to take me where i want.

Thanks for cheering up my day with your math Orchidius!
I can live wit sore elbows!

I think that living with a very tight budget and still wanting to go cruise, is forcing a lot of us into a whole different math than the majority of what I read... (or i´m just really really understimating everything).

Ahoy,
Messias

[Orchidius]

As you read here and there, going cruising costs what you have. No more, no less. I don't have the money or the time to rip out the teak deck currently on my boat, so I patched it up with new seams and hope for the best. I know however that it is very probable to cost upwards of 5k and several months to fix once I get to it. But I can only check by pulling some planks off of the deck, which means I have to pull all of them... (If at all possible, stay away from teak decks on steel boats; I have never heard one of those stories have a happy end).

Something else worth noting is the way those era boats are generally designed. They usually have very "sharp" lines (long and narrow). I absolutely adore that about them, and it makes for very stable and safe boats. However, it also means less waterline and speed as well as less room inside. I've been on modern boats with the same LOA as my boat, but almost twice as wide providing twice the room inside. I have no experience making passages, but I can imagine that being a veryvery big factor in comfort.

Another factor worth considering is the weight. It is generally advised to stay away from steel boats below a LOA of 10m, as you just can't fly enough sail to compensate for the extra weight. This makes for very slow, but stable boats. The previous owner commented on this that my boat really comes into her own when its blowing 6bft and that their game only really began when the lads with their plastic toys came running home with their tail between their legs (his words). I have not been out yet in such conditions, but I know that under 4-4,5bft the 20hp diesel pushes her along as fast or faster then the wind... None of the pleasure boaters in my marina sail when it's blowing 5bft or more .

Anyway, don't get too carried away dreaming (a little is alright though). I was in your position this time of year in 2012, only I had never set foot on a sailboat before. You always have a certain idea about what you want, how it's going to look, how much you're going to spend,... But it changes so often you can barely keep track. Refitting such boats, you know where you start, but never where it will end. And once committed you have to see it through.


Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer/cost more than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

— Douglas Hofstadter, Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid

[hpeer]

Yeah, as much as you have.

You will make mistakes, tolerate it.

If you haven't sat in your cockpit, about to cry, desperate and over whelmed, you haven't been sailing.

Then you put her in the water.

[Orchidius]

If you haven't sat in your cockpit, about to cry, desperate and over whelmed, you haven't been sailing.

Good to hear its not just me

This cruising business better be worth it! Never been so emotionally beat up as by refitting this bloody boat