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Old 04-01-2013, 11:52   #76
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Re: Jacklines

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
The above is a very good summary, but I'd like to add one more item, or rather exercise: Many folks here on the forum like to theorize as to how to get back on board, but few seem to actually have a working plan or have actually tried to do so and experienced just how difficult it is.

I've had a few occasions lately to dive under our boat just to make an inspection when I wasn't able to first deploy the swim ladder because of logistics. I consider myself a pretty good swimmer and in very good physical condition, and each time I was wearing a wet suit and fins... damn... I couldn't get back on board without additional help. Without being able to put my feet into something like a ladder, there's just no way. The one time I was able to crawl up onto another boats swim platform that was only 10 inches above the water line, the second time, it took two of us to drag me up onto the dock. Add some wet clothes and shoes or boots to the mix... there's no way anyone's getting back on board.

I think the video presented early in the thread is about the only self rescue method that can possibly work, as the fellow demonstrated by actually doing it.
Yeah, and he had the additional help of the boat being heeled over a bit. His jackline is also about as tight as mine ever gets that's way I have trouble with the "keep it so tight you never fall off crowd."

But, each individual knows his own capabilities and as some have said they know they could never reboard.

I have learned a ton from all the posts here and will adapt some of the info. I'll test again this summer. My biggest problem is that my aft rail is waaay high so I can't reach it to do a pullup into the boat when sitting at anchor, but heeled over with an adrenaline boost I'm thinking I can make it. I'll have to test that too.............before heading out to Bermuda or the Bahamas etc.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:59   #77
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Re: Jacklines

Okay, here's how Peggy Slater got back aboard after 12 hours trapped in her headsail, hanging over the side rolling in and out of the water:

"As the boat heeled sharply and the rail dipped in the water, I managed to swing an arm and leg over the rail. Grimly I held on until a second wild knockdown put the rail under 6 inches of water. I was back aboard!"

Her boat was rolling violently as the self steering couldn't keep the boat steady. She had been washed overboard attached with a safety harness while in the process of setting up for a gybe.

Here's the link from Amazon:

Peggy: An Affair With the Sea: Peggy Slater, Shelly Usen: 9780963411914: Amazon.com: Books

Fascinating sailor.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:59   #78
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Re: Jacklines

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For me, it's PFD if I go forward in the bay or in less than optimal conditions. I wouldn't normally rig jacklines unless going offshore.
But I hope folks know their geography with this "advice." His Chesapeake Bay is like 10-12 miles wide (and much more tame) whereas for others it's almost 30 miles wide and longer with the current. (and it can get quite rough in the southern bay especially if the wind is NE and you are in the waves coming in off the Atlantic)
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:10   #79
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pirate Re: Jacklines

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
But I hope folks know their geography with this "advice." His Chesapeake Bay is like 10-12 miles wide (and much more tame) whereas for others it's almost 30 miles wide and longer with the current. (and it can get quite rough in the southern bay especially if the wind is NE and you are in the waves coming in off the Atlantic)

This is the actual reason why most boats don't leave their marinas after that first rush and blush of new ownership is gone, IMO. You'd think if you were smart enough to have 300k USD for a Benn46, you'd be smart enough to try actual sailing first. And not on a balmy day with a beer and a broker.
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:23   #80
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Re: Jacklines

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I've started a program and being fit enough to handle anything on the boat is one of the most powerful and motivating goal for me. While I am below average for body mass for an American male my age, that is still overweight according to BMI. In the last month, I have been exercising (at a boring old gym) and eating better and have managed to drop about 7lbs. Only 30 more to go!
Swimming is something I do often, and then all the walking I do,up hills down hills both of these keep me in good shape, but I dont think if I fell overboard while alone I would have a chance- I always figure I i go over im dead- unless your in warm water and then maybe you have a day or so to be found at best
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:32   #81
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Re: Jacklines

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
But I hope folks know their geography with this "advice." His Chesapeake Bay is like 10-12 miles wide (and much more tame) whereas for others it's almost 30 miles wide and longer with the current. (and it can get quite rough in the southern bay especially if the wind is NE and you are in the waves coming in off the Atlantic)
And here I thought I was the conservative one!

I'll be down your way again this summer - mid-June or so. Am planning to do the eastern shore down to tangier i. and/or onancock.
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Old 04-01-2013, 13:16   #82
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Re: Jacklines

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And here I thought I was the conservative one!

I'll be down your way again this summer - mid-June or so. Am planning to do the eastern shore down to tangier i. and/or onancock.
you can anchor for free near Onancock Wharf if you want and park your dinghy by the wooded bridge if you want to take a walk to one of the many Art Shops they have there now.

I believe the creek is 8' all the way in the 5 miles or so from the bay

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Old 04-01-2013, 14:06   #83
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Re: Jacklines

I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier in the thread; there are several products available through marine stores for re-boarding a boat.

The ladder demonstrated by the fellow in the earlier video is called:
The "WINCHARD EMERGENCY BOARDING LADDER"

Something I would definitely consider buying; it packs into a small bag with a deployment ring hanging below to grip and pull from the water.

A second product is call: "C-LEVEL SEA STEPS"

Check out the products, buy one of them for short money... problem solved.
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Old 04-01-2013, 14:40   #84
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Re: Jacklines

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Sometimes you just gotta depend on yourself to be able to stay onboard the boat.
There are clearly personal choices being made and expressed in this thread. In fairness to those of us who clip on..... Using your logic, one need not where a seatbelt if they are only driving under 30 mph...
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Old 04-01-2013, 15:35   #85
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Re: Jacklines

We all agree a PFDs and VHF are required for safety.

What is the argument against a boarding ladder, as many, perhaps most posters would agree it is the only reliable way back on board from the water? Marinas are required to have dock ladders for the same reason. Why wouldn't all sailors add them? "I don't like the looks" is pretty thin. A serious question.

My second boat had one that could not be deployed from the water, so I built one that could. It was important, not just for me, but for family and for guests. If a guest jumped in and could not be brought back aboard, is there lawsuit potential? I practice MOB for my benefit, but mostly to be CERTAIN I can reboard a guest, who may not be good at staying on board and for whom I have accepted responsibility.
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Old 04-01-2013, 15:41   #86
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Re: Jacklines

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please site your source as they may also state numbers on sailors who fell overboard and watched their boat sail off and never lived to tell about it.
Of course there is no "source," because the numbers of people who fall overboard offshore from a cruising sailboat are so tiny there are no statistics on this. That's my whole point--the number that falls overboard with or without a harness is tiny, then the number hooked to a jackline is way smaller than that, then the number that makes it back aboard is still smaller. That's why you're not getting responses about what it is like to be towed along on your safety harness tether. Lots of boats have been found though with nobody on board, often times up on the reef or the beach.
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Old 04-01-2013, 16:53   #87
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Re: Jacklines

To a large degree it will depend on the waters one is sailing in if one can even manage to reboard a boat after going overboard. Where I am, with water temps around 10C, one begins to lose dexterity in about five or ten minutes; in half an hour to an hour one is physically exhausted and possibly unconscious; and one is probably dead in 2 hours. Even with a ladder, reboarding becomes very difficult as extremities begin to get numb, so unless one is very fortunate or amazingly strong, one will almost always need some form of help to get back on board.
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Old 04-01-2013, 17:00   #88
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Re: Jacklines

Quite a few years ago, can't remember where, I read the story of a woman who came up from down below while crossing the Pacific and her husband was not there in the cockpit. It was pretty calm out, and she didn't panic, looked at the compass, thought about what she would do, turned the boat around on a reciprocal course and sailed for a couple of hours until she picked up her husband, still treading water and wondering if these were his last few hours on earth. He had just tripped on something on a calm night and fell overboard, and watched the boat sail away under self steering gear without him. Very lucky.
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Old 04-01-2013, 17:05   #89
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Re: Jacklines

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There are clearly personal choices being made and expressed in this thread. In fairness to those of us who clip on..... Using your logic, one need not where a seatbelt if they are only driving under 30 mph...
I'm thinking your logic is somewhat flawed there, but if it works for you that's great. You know yourself better than I do. This could be your first boat, I'm not sure. If so, I'd definitely recommend you clip on.

Some of us have been on the water since we were kids so its different I think. There are just so many variables to each discussion.

Maybe you can't swim. Maybe you are in bad shape and overweight. it goes on and on................

so, yes, when I am in site of land often times I do not use a jackline or harness.
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Old 04-01-2013, 19:32   #90
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Re: Jacklines

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I'm thinking your logic is somewhat flawed there, but if it works for you that's great. You know yourself better than I do. This could be your first boat, I'm not sure. If so, I'd definitely recommend you clip on.

Some of us have been on the water since we were kids so its different I think. There are just so many variables to each discussion.

Maybe you can't swim. Maybe you are in bad shape and overweight. it goes on and on................

so, yes, when I am in site of land often times I do not use a jackline or harness.
Since you asked for a resume

Learned to sail 42 years ago when I was 16, have owned boats of various sizes prior to my T-33.

From the ago of 40 to about 55 kayaked extensively. I was a pretty good long distance, and open ocean kayaker- probably have over 15,000 miles of paddling mostly in wilderness or open ocean- usually about a mile off shore. Also about 4-5,000 miles of expedition racing, including a 1,500 mile race. As these races are non-stop multi-day events, to be competitive you are in the boat well over 18 hours a day sometimes just going almost 38 hours non-stop. My longest period in a boat was a tad over 48 hours non-stop. I wore a PFD for almost everyone of those miles and learned how to manage risk so as to be competitive and not get hurt.

There are old kayaker and bold kayakers, there are no old, bold kayakers!

I am currently 58, 6'3" 230 lbs, a tad over my kayaking weight, but still in decent shape for an older guy.

My day job is in the utilities industry, one of my major accomplishments in my current position is reducing the injury rate. How? Training and requiring appropriate personal protective equipment!!!

No one plans on falling off the boat. Many accidents are caused by lack of attention, lack of training or not using the right PPE. Unless one is infallible (Pope?) or can walk on water, one needs to accept the fact that eventually you will F-up. The jackline and tether ensure that when I make that mistake, none of you guys are hitting on my widow for the insurance money and that new Swan.

Having removed your presumptions from the discussion, I hope the logic behind my choices are clearer.

Like I said, there are opinions being expressed here based on personal choices.

Bill
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