Islander 28/36 Opinions

[Jim H]

Hi, All

We're checking out a local 1972 Islander 36. I've been impressed by all the owner information and enthusiasm at http://www.islander36.org/, and at first look the boat looks in solid condition. It's a Hawaii vet and won its class in the local Astoria to Victoria race.

According to my research, we'll take a close look for mast step and keel bolt corrosion, and blisters. We'd also have a full survey done. Since it's a 72, there's a chance it will have fewer blister issues. It has a tiller, which I like, but that might affect resale value. The diesel has about 1400 hours on it, and it has six sails but no roller furling.

This boat might be too big for us, but it's fun to consider. It has a six foot draft, and for the first year we'd use it mostly for cruising the Columbia River. After that, we'd like to take it off-shore (coastal) up to Puget Sound for as long as 4-6 weeks. We have two kids (6 and 8) who are likely only to become larger as they grow older, so...

Another boat we like locally is a 1979 Islander 28 (four foot draft, no furling, was also raced). We like it a lot, but we're not sure it will be as stable for the off-shore passage north (especially if the kids were along), or for how long the four of us could be comfortable aboard. However, it could be a better choice for a few years, since nearly everything on it would be less expensive to replace or repair (compared to the 36).

Thanks for any comments on either boats.

Jim H

[capt lar]

hey jim - glad you are taking your time and looking around. i do not know anything about islanders - hopefully the resident expert will be by. i did check on yachtworld and found there are plenty around, some with wheel, some variation in layout. nice looking boat. good luck with the hunt.
capt. lar

[Jim H]

Thanks for the encouragement. It was pouring rain, but we enjoyed climbing through the Islander 36. The good news was that my wife and kids liked it (a lot), and my co-captain felt we'd be able to handle it just fine. It seemed like a comfortable size for a month or more up on the inside passage toward Alaska.

Things I liked: most of the teak inside was nice, and the 3 cyl 30 hp Yanmar has around 1500 hours or more on a rebuild, but it is the original '72 power plant. I liked the hart inverter and five new batteries, very nice stainless winches, and the base of the mast showed no corrosion at the step. I also liked the tiller and the looks of the standing rigging. There were no obvious blisters on the deck or topsides. It was a 'tall mast' with a 53 foot clearance height. There was a dodger and full length bimini, which needed the clear plastic replaced but we appreciated the rain protection while in the cockpit.

Things not so great: there was some general cracking on deck, but nothing looked structural. (There was less than what we just repaired on our '67 Cal 20.) There was some significant rust and flaking on some of the keelbolts. With the help of the pouring rain, we also found more evidence of leaks than we would have liked, on both sides of the cabin (puddles under pads, some damaged wood). There was not visible leaks from the windows, but the water may have been running internally. All of the wood on deck would have to be refinished or replaced.

It was too wet to pull off the sail cover and inspect the main sail. We didn't take the time to look at the sails below decks. There's six sails, but no roller furling. The sellers have had the boat for 4-5 years, but it was the owners before them who put the serious mileage on the boat (racing, a trip to Hawaii, etc.). As a result, not everything may be fully functional, like the autopilot. Most of the electronics, like the radar, looked about 5-6 years old. The GPS/Chartplotter looked newer, maybe 2 years old.

Anyway, it was a lot of fun to look at, and the price wasn't bad. The six foot draft wouldn't be the best for the Columbia River or parts of Puget Sound, but this could be a great boat (when brought up for specs) for longer coastal cruising (if the claims of good sailing characteristics are true). Maybe we'd take it south at some point in the future.

What we need to think about is the optimum length for us. Now that we've seen an Islander 28 (great for day sails and shorter trips) and an Islander 36 (possibly great for the "big cruises" and for our growing kids), we hope to find some good examples of appropriate 30 and 32 footers to consider. The traditionalist in me wants to see a 30 foot Cape Dory, while my performance side wants to see a lighter C&C with good light air performance. Budget-wise, they're roughly in our range now, and more easily in range in 12-15 months.

Info about the 36 we saw is online at http://www.iboats.com/sites/mccuddy/...m_index_1.html

Meanwhile, I hope we can sail our Cal 20 tomorrow. I wish we had more Sabre and Tartan sailboats on the west coast to look at (not to mention Bristols).

Jim H

[Jentine]

Jim,
You are only young once. If this boat is too big for you and it passes the surveyors and the admiral's inspections, BUY IT. You may feel that it is too big, too expensive, too....too......too. There are always reasons to not do something; never enough reasons to do it. I would rather go out remembering all the good times we had rather than thinking about the times I wished we had.
The boat appears to be in good condition. It has many upgrades which indicate that the owners have paid attention to detail. I sold my boat last summer. It was on the market for 5 days. The buyers said they had been looking for a decent boat for two years and could not find anything. There are a lot of boats for sale, but not a lot of good boats. Choose wisely, but choose.

Jim

[capt lar]

i would think hard on the draft issue. we access deep water through a long, tight, shallow channel and we have to watch tide. sometimes we can not get out. oncoming boats often drive up the center of the channel and force you over to the edge. we were nice when we started and ended up grounding once - just sand. i now point the bow straight at them to force them over and claim my half. i would term this "regionally adjusted etiquette". our next boat will be combo keel/centerboard and we will live with the associated issues and compromises.

capt. lar

[Jim H]

The draft would be an issue from day one, if we moor the 36 in the same marina as our Cal 20. At low tide, even our 3' 4" draft on our 20 can run aground in some places near the entrance, and there are even some shallow areas in the marina.

I've been investigating the keel/centerboard setups, and it seems like they would be fine if the basics were right (pivot point, raising system) and if scheduled haul-outs were done. If one let things slide, however... I noticed the C&C 32 was offered with such a setup.

On the Islander site, I found a link to this gentleman's web site:

http://inetd.com/Boat/SanDiego05/

I have to admit that his site is blowing me away at the moment-- you don't often see such a comprehensive and honest collection of up-to-date information about buying, preping and then coastal cruising a 30 footer for 5 months. His opinions are strong, but not radically different than mine, but I hope to sail with family instead of single hand. It's worth skimming just to see how he set up the boat-- helpful for me in terms of thinking how much I'll need to spend after the purchase.

[Jim H]

Jentine once whispered in the wind:
Jim,
You are only young once. There are always reasons to not do something; never enough reasons to do it.

I agree with this, and we're proceeding at a good pace (especially given that it's winter). However, my cautious side also tells me there's risks in this process. It is true that there are a lot of fine sailboats at our marinas (and marinas everywhere?) that never seem to get out of their slips. Many are nicer than we'll ever afford, but we wonder why they aren't being used.

The overall picture makes it look like it's easier to buy a sailboat than use it fully. We've been sailing every week this year (and I hope to go again in about an hour), but partly that's because we started in a club and then restored a smaller keelboat that is easy to take out with little fuss or muss.

We really liked the Islander 36, and it could be "the boat" after we think about it more, but it's not without risks. The status of the '72 Yanmar isn't clear, for example, and if it needed big bucks for a rebuild that could keep the boat in its slip for awhile. We saw rust on the diesel tank, which was positioned in a way that the engine may need to be pulled to access the tank for repair or replacement. The bottom could easily have some blisters, or many blisters in the near future, or not...

You're right about worrying too much about the choice, and never choosing, but I think we're on the right track. I like having some redudancy-- like being able to use a digny outboard on the stern if the diesel had problems. Or using a hand crank for starting. Or knowing that even we had blister problems on an older boat, we could do most of the work our selves if the hull wasn't too large.

All in all, it's fun to think about and research and plan-- not as much fun as sailing or cruising-- but the process is culmulative.

Thanks for looking at the link to the 36!


Jim

[capt lar]

i am a big believer in buying quality. i would rather have a shorter boat with a shorter list of projects. the purchase price, and attached boat loan in most cases, is the easy part. it is the big repairs and mandatory replacements that really push the total of my "boat" category on quickbooks way up each year. also, all yearly expenses tied to length, such as haul, wash, store, dock, mooring have an impact. these expenses are cash out of pocket, not an extra $100 per month on a loan. when our kids were young, we had a sabre 28 and it fit us fine.
capt. lar

[Scott k]

Jim H

Sorry, I don't have a comment about your prospective boat buying. Just wanted to say thanks for the link. From what I've read so far, it's a great read!

You're right....he does have some strong opions....but appears to be totally practical.

Scott

[Curtis]

Hi Jim,
I'm glad to see another family out there going sailing. That is the way I grew up as a kid. Unfortunately, we see very few sailing families around the west coast of Florida.

We bought our boat two years ago against the realization that if we waited for the perfect boat that we could afford, the boys would be grown and gone. They are now 15, 13, and 10, and the time we've spent on the boat has been wonderful. In my opinion, it is less about the specific boat than the time that you spend as a family.

When boat shopping, I focused on used boats that were new enough to be complete and in "sail away" condition. It was much easier for us to finance a bit more than come up with extra cash to fix things or add on. I also needed to be comfortable that we could use it for a couple of years without breaking a big-ticket item.

To keep costs reasonable, I focused on the intended use...we don't need a boat capable of crossing the North Atlantic in November....ain't gonna happen. We are coastal cruisers, weekenders, with one or two "big trips" each year. This year we crossed the Gulf to Mexico and back and also crossed to the panhandle of Florida and back. The family "lived aboard" for about two months while I commuted back and forth to the coal mines.

If, after the kids are off to college, we decide to spend a few years cruising then I'd probably change boats..we won't need three cabins and two heads! I saw the Caliber 40 at the show last weekend and think that it would be just about ideal for us as longterm cruisers.

Good luck on the search...that is part of the fun!

Regards,
Curtis

[Jim H]

Curtis once whispered in the wind:
Hi Jim,
I'm glad to see another family out there going sailing. That is the way I grew up as a kid. Unfortunately, we see very few sailing families around the west coast of Florida.

Curtis, it sounds like you've made some great choices. I'd love to have a similar arrangement where the family and I could do at least one "big trip" a year, and I get the sense that my wife and kids might actually do some cruising without me in the summer (since my wife had more time off than I each year).

We love the basic Islander 28 we looked at, but I think we might charter one for a week next June and continue to build up our experience before we decide what to own. For us, membership in a sailing club has allowed us to sail a good range of boats, and the club has boats up in the Puget Sound area we can check out for daysails and overnighters as well.

The other idea that "haunts us" is that maybe we should plan a break in our careers for a few years and do an extended cruise before the kids are teenagers. We've been playing with such an idea as well, and how we would save and prep for a 2-3 year cruise in a few years, and the impact on us financially. In other terms (such as wife and kids' interest and ability), I think we'd be fine.

So many fun options to think about. I just posted an self introduction about us in the Introductions part of the board. It has a link to a bunch of pictures we've posted of a Cal 20 resotration we just finished and some of our little family cruises so far.

Thanks again for the great reply!

[gpshephe]

Did you ever find out what anyone though of Islanders?