Island Packet Closing doors

[Polux]

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey

Domestic made boat numbers total for 2013 (which is a good guess):

1,164 20ft and over
1,177 Multihulls BUT only #49 over 30ft

Multi's make for biggest import market.

Those number regards only sailboats?

20ft and over is no good since Beneteau cruising boats only start at 31ft, Jeanneau with 34ft, Bavaria with 33ft and Hanse with 31ft.

For comparative purposes can you see the number of monohull sailboats with over 30/31ft produced on the US?

[Island Time O25]

Don't know how good the figures are but IMO they are reflective of reality, give or take.

• Number of sailboats sold in the U.S. 2000-2014 | Statistic

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by tdoster

There are two dedicated IP forums where you will find plenty of happy customers who bought new boats from IP.

That is manipulating the sample. Pick the worst build production boat you can think of and go to thier owners site and of course, you will find a drastically higher percentage who have bought that boat and they will probably overwhelmingly call it a good boat.

The respondents here represent a more typical cross section of cruisers (though not a perfect sample).

Of course, the true sample is current sales which barring this being a total hoax, does not speak well of new IP sales.

Again, I have nothing against IP or thier boats. This is purely a market/buisness assessment I'm talking about. They clearly have not addressed the buisness side of the buisness.

[s/v Jedi]

The salon table and the navstation (lack of I would call that fold-up piece of ply) was what put me off IP in 2000.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

Don't know how good the figures are but IMO they are reflective of reality, give or take.

• Number of sailboats sold in the U.S. 2000-2014 | Statistic

I lost some time with it but those statistics are rather frustrating: Regarding motorboats there is a wide discrimination of types, regarding sailboats...they are just sailboats but when you see the average price of those new sailboats you get 56K, so we are not talking here mostly about cruising boats but about small open sailboats.

http://www.nmma.net/assets/cabinets/...ct-Preview.pdf

The numbers are not good for sailing. The sailboats retired from the fleet in 2013 are estimated in 11 436 and the new sailboats are 5600.

Anyway no information regarding what I wanted.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We didn't see the pin hole on the floor for leg placement, so on this boat a 485, when I lowered the table, the leg bent forward and tore off the leg hinge... collapsing the table.

Interesting, there is no pin hole on mine, just have to let the leg hang straight down. I guess maybe someone kicked out the leg and complained, so IP put the hole and pin in?
But to me, the table that will seat six , three on each Settee. but fold in half so if it's just a couple that works too, is one of the selling points of the boat, others that I looked at always had the table out, some could be dropped to make another bed, but they were always there, having the table fold up and disappear is to a large extent I believe what makes the interior of an IP seem so spacious. Kind of like a Murphy bed, nothing new here

Does illustrate well though the theory of one mans trash is another's treasure.

[a64pilot]

This is my theory, everybody has one, right? I base this on just my beliefs, not any real knowledge of the boating industry or anything else

IP is sort of a niche boat, and they really didn't evolve, they tried, they built sort of a Cat, but built it apparently like they did their mono's, so I don't think it worked well.
They tried a foray into the power world, but again built it like the mono sailboat, which meant price wise it was up there with well known, respected well established marques, and that didn't work, as in the power world, they aren't well known, established and respected.
They lost money on each of these attempts, and began to focus on big, expensive boats.
So the fewer and fewer boats they sold, drove manufacturing numbers down, but the fixed costs of course remain the same, so the fewer you build, the more expensive each one is, so to break even, price has to go up. Pretty soon they priced themselves out of the market.

[frozenhawaiian]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

This is my theory, everybody has one, right? I base this on just my beliefs, not any real knowledge of the boating industry or anything else

IP is sort of a niche boat, and they really didn't evolve, they tried, they built sort of a Cat, but built it apparently like they did their mono's, so I don't think it worked well.
They tried a foray into the power world, but again built it like the mono sailboat, which meant price wise it was up there with well known, respected well established marques, and that didn't work, as in the power world, they aren't well known, established and respected.
They lost money on each of these attempts, and began to focus on big, expensive boats.
So the fewer and fewer boats they sold, drove manufacturing numbers down, but the fixed costs of course remain the same, so the fewer you build, the more expensive each one is, so to break even, price has to go up. Pretty soon they priced themselves out of the market.

I agree with all of this. I'll also add that I think IP refused to evolve to the tastes of modern cruisers. while there will always be those who don't mind heavy, slow, full keels and conservative sailplans. but the fact of the matter is that more cruisers are putting a premium on performance. IP never seemed to grasp this.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by frozenhawaiian

I agree with all of this. I'll also add that I think IP refused to evolve to the tastes of modern cruisers. while there will always be those who don't mind heavy, slow, full keels and conservative sailplans. but the fact of the matter is that more cruisers are putting a premium on performance. IP never seemed to grasp this.

I won't enter the non performance argument as that is what people want to believe, but they aren't as slow as you want to think, not as maneuverable, yes.


But I do not believe the average cruiser is a new boat buyer, and of course manufacturers do, or should anyway listen to the people who buy new boats. The second person to buy their boat is irrelevant.
So I don't think the average Cruiser is driving new boat design or manufacturing.

I believe a large number of new boat buyers buy new boats to impress others, they want to entertain and show off their latest toy, not all of course, but I believe a majority, Cruisers I believe are a minority of boat owners, more so new boats.
To a large extent I believe new boats are bought by the same people who buy the big new houses, and I've been through many of those during construction, and can tell you on average they are very poorly constructed.
People don't want well constructed, they want big and flashy, and for the same money as a well constructed boat, you can have a much larger less well built boat, this person won't own that boat in five years anyway, and it will work fine sitting in a slip used on weekends for five years.
Power boat world it was Bayliners that sold and did very well business wise, but how well constructed is the average Bayliner?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I won't enter the non performance argument as that is what people want to believe, but they aren't as slow as you want to think, not as maneuverable, yes.


But I do not believe the average cruiser is a new boat buyer, and of course manufacturers do, or should anyway listen to the people who buy new boats. The second person to buy their boat is irrelevant.
So I don't think the average Cruiser is driving new boat design or manufacturing.

I believe a large number of new boat buyers buy new boats to impress others, they want to entertain and show off their latest toy, not all of course, but I believe a majority, Cruisers I believe are a minority of boat owners, more so new boats.
To a large extent I believe new boats are bought by the same people who buy the big new houses, and I've been through many of those during construction, and can tell you on average they are very poorly constructed.
People don't want well constructed, they want big and flashy, and for the same money as a well constructed boat, you can have a much larger less well built boat, this person won't own that boat in five years anyway, and it will work fine sitting in a slip used on weekends for five years.
Power boat world it was Bayliners that sold and did very well business wise, but how well constructed is the average Bayliner?

I know at least a few people with bayliners and I know several with searays. They are pretty much the same quality as searay which is considered a middle to upper middle quality boat.

The biggest issue with them is a perception is reality issue. They have a bad reputation, so experienced boaters won't buy them...so inexperienced boaters buy them...so they tend to get abused and poorly maintained...so it reinfoces the idea that they are bad boats.

Not buying the rich guys plunks down half a million on a show piece with no intent to ever cruise it.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I know at least a few people with bayliners and I know several with searays. They are pretty much the same quality as searay which is considered a middle to upper middle quality boat.

The biggest issue with them is a perception is reality issue. They have a bad reputation, so experienced boaters won't buy them...so inexperienced boaters buy them...so they tend to get abused and poorly maintained...so it reinfoces the idea that they are bad boats.

Not buying the rich guys plunks down half a million on a show piece with no intent to ever cruise it.

Lol!!!!

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Not buying the rich guys plunks down half a million on a show piece with no intent to ever cruise it.

I guess you have to define what cruise means, but seems most of the larger, newer, expensive boats I've seen, I see in Marina's.

Most of the people who come trough my area doing the Great Loop or have been aboard their boat for long periods and are passing through, seem to be in much older and not so impressive boats.
I'm sure they are "Cruisers" in new, expensive boats, but they don't seem to be that common. I put cruisers in parenthesis as what is a cruiser? Means different things to different people.

It's sort of like Porsche owners, average new 911 owner is a wealthier person who bought the car to impress, they are not people with a Competition license, and they aren't seen at Road Atlanta etc on track days, and certainly do not race that car.
The competitive driver who has a real love for driving and is on the track every time he or she can, usually is in an older 911

[Colin A]

I believe in general other then a small blip in 2014 (mostly driven by small sailboats) sailboat sales have been on a downward trend for close to 20 years. Yachtworld or Boat trader posted numbers a few years ago showing sailboats larger than 20' as having a used sales numbers many multiples of new sales like 3,500 new vs 35,000 used sales a year.

This is where the European builders have an edge. Sailing is more popular in Europe then here so they have good sales in Europe which means they have higher volumes when they get over here they can price their vessel more competitively and have more research dollars as they sell in multiple markets where as the US builders have always had trouble making inroads in Europe. They have had some success but not much lately . Hunter for instance had a factory in the UK for a while if I remember correctly.

[SV THIRD DAY]

The Internet Rumor Mill can run wild, that's for sure.

From: Jeff & Jean Grossman
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: Island Packet Sailboats......gone...bankrupt

We live near IP and are plugged into them.

IP IS NOT OUT OF BUSINESS!!!!

They changed ownership hands and the new owners "bobbled" the cut over. This info is straight from Bob Johnson.

[a64pilot]

Well as an IP owner, I'm glad to hear that

Actually I'd be glad to hear that even if I didn't own one, competition is good for the breed,, need several manufacturers