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Old 28-02-2016, 07:04   #106
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

I had a 94 IP44 for several years. I was amazed that it was the only shallow draft (4-11) blue water boat that went upwind at +hull speed 8.4 knots in 15knots wind.
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Old 28-02-2016, 07:10   #107
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by geoleo View Post
I had a 94 IP44 for several years. I was amazed that it was the only shallow draft (4-11) blue water boat that went upwind at +hull speed 8.4 knots in 15knots wind.
Personally I would be even more amazed than you if I got these results out of your boat however rather than amazed I would tend to use the word...unbelievable! !
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Old 28-02-2016, 07:11   #108
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by morven55 View Post
I notice quite a few comments regarding "modern" boat design, and how pathetic old grandpas are in their preferences for "antiquated", "traditional" boat design.

Does that indicate that boat design must continue to evolve in order to produce more seaworthy vessels? Or is the emphasis now on "see"worthy? Are we to believe that boats must evolve to meet market demands, and those features that "modern" sailors demand based on what they see in yachting magazines?

We're not talking about automobiles or smartphones here, but a vessel that must be able to survive the harsh conditions found at sea. I'm not trying to start a pissing contest here, but I am truly interested in the opinions of people that actually understand how important certain aspects of boat design are.

If IP is going belly up for economic reasons that is one thing, but if they are done because their design philosophy is "outdated" are we losing something here?
A lot of great points here...thank you. In any catagory, cars, airplanes, boats, there will be preferences. Some people lean towards fast, modern and high tech, while others traditional. For the most part, this is true of boats with the added factor some people can only afford an older design. This of course is the category I am in, although i have sailed on all kinds of boats.
The design of a modern boat has little to do with being sea worthy and more to do with curb appeal and manufacturing costs. If you want an interior that reveals no plastic and all wood, you're going to have to pay big bucks for it. The worlds exotic timber supply is no where near what it was in the 70's and these days cost almost a factor of 10. So it is much cheaper to make molds that produce a white gelcoat finish and spend the money saved on marketing, convincing the new buyer that this is what they really want.
As far as being sea worthy, there are many here that swear newer designs are safer and better while others point out incidences like their rudders falling off or Home Depot style door hardware being use. Yet older, fuller keel designs are ridiculed for there slower speed. Again, it all depends on the buyers preference.
Just my opinion but I think IP missed the "boat" on design completely. When a person says a particular boat is designed for comfort, it usually means comfort while sailing. But IP's idea of comfort seemed to focus around livability. There beams were monstrous , allowing for interior layouts. But I'm sure this was an easy sale to the buyers misses.
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Old 28-02-2016, 07:12   #109
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Good Morning,

I'd just like to say I owned a Beneteau 311 for several years and now an Island Packet 350. In my opinion, despite the size difference, the IP is much more seaworthy for my taste. But that's not what this post is about. We all have our personal preference.

Somebody made a comparison of modern boats/IP to AIS/Sextant. Okay, I have an AIS. But, I also received a beautiful sextant for Christmas. I'm learning the art/science of celestial navigation. It is challenging and maybe in the end not very relevant and useful for the time I put into it. BUT, likewise, for those of us whose slower boat represents the journey we prefer, the sextant has opened up the heavens for me.

I am learning about stars, their positions in the constellations and the wonderful ancient lore that goes with them. I look forward to peering out at the changing night sky views and learning to identify the constellations on dark nights from our beautiful and comfortable Island Packet.
As an individual buyer, your personal preference is all that matters.

As a boat builder, you can't build a buinsess on your personal preference.

To take your navigation analogy:
- There are several manufacturers of AIS and the market is growing. People who have no interest in the underlying technology are buying them because they are useful.
- Not sure how many sextant manufacurers are left but it's probably like buggy whip manufacturers. I'm sure you can buy a buggy whip still. There will always be a tiny market but by that standard, there are still way too many traditional builders around for the market to support them all.
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Old 28-02-2016, 07:19   #110
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Apples and oranges... slipping a cat is a very different problem / expense / availability than a mono.... not to mention the sailing "experience" is quite different. It's not all about interior real estate.
Not really. For the half million that a new IP runs, you can pick up a 40' cat that is faster, and more comfortable to live on. Getting a slip and haul out isn't that hard and if you can afford a new half million dollar boat, the few small ongoing costs are a non-issue. If you anchor out a lot, there is almost no additional costs associated with a cat.

The sailing "experience" being a primary driver is exactly what people are talking about when they say IP's target buyer is 6' under. It sounds salty and appeals to the guys who can't understand these new fangled twin hulled monstrosities....but it doesn't sell boats.
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Old 28-02-2016, 08:00   #111
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

The problem with the Automobile comparison is that most of the changes in the automobiles from year to year aren't so much in the base design, but in the peripherals. Take a look at a Subaru Forester or Outback. Boats aren't burdened with peripherals. Opposite, their design changes more often but not every year. They simply introduce a new model a foot shorter or larger.

I don't think buying a used IP vs a new IP is the question. If you are looking for a new boat you are looking for a new boat. IP has not made significant design changes nor have they cut down manufacturing costs to make their product affordable and therefore competitive to other manufacturers out there.
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Old 28-02-2016, 08:04   #112
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Manufacturing wise, I was there last Summer and it was obvious business wasn't booming. They were manufacturing Seaward boats too I believe and had a small refit line going, but it was mostly empty with an obvious skeleton crew.
I liken an IP to say old world furniture, it is apparently cost prohibitive to manufacture and not many people around as there used to be that are Craftsmen that can.

From a how is it built perspective, they are or were essentially hand built boats, no computer controlled anything that I saw, glass hand laid etc.


Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum
Thanks for the info, If they are/were still doing hand layup then they were behind the times. We have a few IPs at the marina where I work but I have not worked on any and I don't even give them a passing glance because they are so damn ugly but my understanding is that they have less than average gelcoat issues and deck core issues. I understand that they do not use balsa as a deck core like most builders which would contribute to this. I'm not sure what they use though. The power boat we have here is another story and clearly they had no part in the design, it doesn't have an ugly angle.
Re the catamaran, I'm sure it is an in house design although it looks more like an outhouse design, it was clearly designed by someone with no understanding of multihull design at all and they would have been better to enlist outside help like they did with the power boat. I passed one of those things motoring on the icw and you couldn't see daylight through the tunnel, its an abortion, it always amazes me that things like this make it into production.
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Old 28-02-2016, 08:11   #113
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by geoleo View Post
I had a 94 IP44 for several years. I was amazed that it was the only shallow draft (4-11) blue water boat that went upwind at +hull speed 8.4 knots in 15knots wind.
Absolute nonsense.
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Old 28-02-2016, 08:23   #114
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

When I'm at sea and I see another sail, it never crosses my mind to be critical of the vessel. I just see another Captain enjoying the wind. My thoughts are with the team at IP, good luck and fair winds.
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Old 28-02-2016, 08:42   #115
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

I have always liked IP boats and would be sorry to see them go away.
Several comments here have criticized them for being slower than more modern designs.
Saying 8 knots is fast and 6.5 knots is slow is really missing the point IMHO.
ALL SAILBOATS ARE SLOW. Even a bicycle is faster than a sailboat!
If I wanted to go fast, sailing would be very low on my list of activities.
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Old 28-02-2016, 08:44   #116
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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My IP is part of my family...I love it & it loves me...you can`t buy that at Walmart.

rip IP
I totally and completely feel the same about mine.
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Old 28-02-2016, 08:48   #117
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

I see that internet expertise knowledge is starting to appear in the thread.

I've never sailed on an IP, but I bet they sail just fine.

I find it funny that there are people here criticizing IP for their target market and build methods who in other threads bad mouth the more mass market builders for not doing it more the IP way.
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Old 28-02-2016, 09:37   #118
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Sailed a 27 to Mexico and back. They are fantastic sailors, once you figure out how they like to sail. Love the quality, love the boats.
I can see Geoleo getting 8.4 knots out of them, they are not slow vessels
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Old 28-02-2016, 10:07   #119
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Word on the street at the Miami Boat Show a couple of weeks ago was that IP closed the doors and all workers were no longer working for IP. The good news is the workers are under contract to build the Seward boats for Hake.
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Old 28-02-2016, 10:11   #120
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

I have sailed on two different models now and they sail well. I don't know about 8.4 kn. But I belive I could get close to that. They don't point upwind as well as some but they are not slow. Both I sailed had a main, a genora and a stay sail. And you could get all three out upwind.
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