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Old 27-02-2016, 20:58   #91
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by rosatte View Post
They are nice boats but who could afford to buy a new one..only a few can
Back around 2009 there were a few new leftovers in California, there was one (46 IIRC) that was 3 years old and the dealer was offering it at something like $150K off. We were seriously considering it at the time, probably good that we didn't because I cannot imagine trying to dock that beast. We looked at a 45 back around 1997 and it was a boat show special at $275K, that same boat today is probably still over $200K.

I did a lot of research on their boats, only sailed a 38, but gave up for many reasons. The head designer seemed to be stuck on a few ridiculous design features such as the weird helm seat, miles of exposed teak, slurry used as ballast, funky rudder protection, aluminum tanks, odd angled bunks, etc.

Their customer base were rabid fans and for the most part IP responded to their complaints and re-engineered some design issues.
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Old 27-02-2016, 23:12   #92
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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I notice quite a few comments regarding "modern" boat design, and how pathetic old grandpas are in their preferences for "antiquated", "traditional" boat design.

Does that indicate that boat design must continue to evolve in order to produce more seaworthy vessels? Or is the emphasis now on "see"worthy? Are we to believe that boats must evolve to meet market demands, and those features that "modern" sailors demand based on what they see in yachting magazines?

We're not talking about automobiles or smartphones here, but a vessel that must be able to survive the harsh conditions found at sea. I'm not trying to start a pissing contest here, but I am truly interested in the opinions of people that actually understand how important certain aspects of boat design are.

If IP is going belly up for economic reasons that is one thing, but if they are done because their design philosophy is "outdated" are we losing something here?
Nothing lost. More akin to the takeover of fuel injected engines. There were some bumps early on but now no one wants a carbureted engine in their new car.
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Old 28-02-2016, 04:59   #93
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by Black Diamond View Post
IPw485, I found that it cost $200K more for a no-options IP with a badly laid out interior than my custom HYLAS
...Hinkley, Oyster and Hylas went that route and do well today.

There were good people in the company, and I loved my IP45, but clearly IP needed to transition to a new model and it didn't happen.

Rick
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I'd guess that the market for a slow and steady, full keel boat with the IP looks (which some people love and some don't) is very limited, and the stock of used boats on the market more than satisfies demand.
Great comments from these posters.


Remember in the 'old days' when the latest car on the market was that years model? The 1970 Ford was completely different to the 1969 or 1971?(et al) Finally someone grew a brain and models only changed a hub cap each year or whatever. But they changed, evolved, got smarter. Faster, streamlined etc. A 10 year old car sux big time. But a 10 year old IP is exactly the same as a new one. No inovation, no improvement. (And as someone said IP owners are the types to well maintain their boats!)

But look at the manufacturers who are still profitable (yes, socialists, you need profit to keep the doors open):
Oyster, Hylas, Swan etc. When IP started they were all making 35_39ft boats.
But they got bigger. Now there's no small boats! The smallest Oyster isn't the 45 or 49, or even 50. I think its 53 or 57, isn't it?

Swan has a 112 footer! Its 80 footer is a mass produced boat... masses of them.
What's Oysters biggest boat?

And letting u customise. How do they do that? Even Beneteau lets you. So now everyone wants it and will pay more, much more for their boat to be personalised.

Because these companies modernised not only their manufacturing but their THOUGHT they have captured a market IP could have had.

Its easy for business to blame the Chinese or India for all our (Australia/USA etc) woes but we are often wrong. If Nautor can make competitively priced (!!) 112 footers in Finland then we need to rethink the blame.



Mark



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Old 28-02-2016, 05:21   #94
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Oyster makes a 48ft boat all the way up to a 118ft model. Each one is semi custom.
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Old 28-02-2016, 05:47   #95
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by Scaramanga F25 View Post
when you have sailed on a great day at 10 knots on a modern boat it is difficult to go back to 7 knots on an antiquated design meant for wood construction.
7 knots on an island packet? i doubt it unless you are in a gale. and if a builder insists on aluminum tanks and bizarre chainplate systems why not provide a way to maintain them without destroying much of the boat to do it
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Old 28-02-2016, 06:09   #96
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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7 knots on an island packet? i doubt it unless you are in a gale. and if a builder insists on aluminum tanks and bizarre chainplate systems why not provide a way to maintain them without destroying much of the boat to do it
Don't know what you sail or what you know, but an IP will easily make 7kn.
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Old 28-02-2016, 06:22   #97
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

"If you want to buy tools these days you go to Harbor Frieght and you get cheap affordable tools, boat buyers are no different. The average Joe does not want or simply can't buy quality anymore. We are conditioned to accept "good enough"and that's unlikely to change."

Harbor Freight tools have their purpose, but obviously you never worked as a mechanic every day with that junk.
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Old 28-02-2016, 06:38   #98
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Good Morning,

I'd just like to say I owned a Beneteau 311 for several years and now an Island Packet 350. In my opinion, despite the size difference, the IP is much more seaworthy for my taste. But that's not what this post is about. We all have our personal preference.

Somebody made a comparison of modern boats/IP to AIS/Sextant. Okay, I have an AIS. But, I also received a beautiful sextant for Christmas. I'm learning the art/science of celestial navigation. It is challenging and maybe in the end not very relevant and useful for the time I put into it. BUT, likewise, for those of us whose slower boat represents the journey we prefer, the sextant has opened up the heavens for me.

I am learning about stars, their positions in the constellations and the wonderful ancient lore that goes with them. I look forward to peering out at the changing night sky views and learning to identify the constellations on dark nights from our beautiful and comfortable Island Packet.
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Old 28-02-2016, 06:41   #99
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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My impression was IP was focused on comfy first but capable. I wonder if the rise of catamarans was part of what did them in (assuming they have been done in).

20-30 yrs ago the idea that catamarans were death traps was still firmly entrenched. They had a leg up on the lower end production monos by claiming to be more capable and they were more comfortable than the traditional full keel boats (plus a lot cheaper compared to your swan and similar brands). This gave them a prime spot in the market (upper middle class non-traditionalists who want comfort in a safe boat)

As catamarans proved to be quite capable and offered even better accommodations, the market segment that would have considered IP, shifted towards cats.

I think IP saw this with their aborted packet-cat trimaran but they were too far behind the curve.
Apples and oranges... slipping a cat is a very different problem / expense / availability than a mono.... not to mention the sailing "experience" is quite different. It's not all about interior real estate.
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Old 28-02-2016, 06:43   #100
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

"Let's kick that man while he is down!"

I understand IP continues to sell "old" designs and holds on tightly to some odd construction ideas which along with the economic climate is aiding in their potential demise. But, as a couple of beginning cruisers (on a mini-budget) we owe IP a lot of gratitude. They have made some rock solid little cruising boats that age well and allow people such as us to live and cruise aboard a safe, reliable platform. Is the IP styling everybody's cup of tea? No, but they have appealed to many sailors including us aboard our little IP 31. Slow, steady and comfortable works for us. Would we like the submarine ability, helicopter rotor attachment, cappuccino holding tanks, telescoping mast and all the other whiz-bang options available in new designs? Heck yeah, but we can't afford them or need them. Give us a 30 year old IP and we'll anchor in the same beautiful bay watching the same brilliant sunset.

Kick them while they are down if you will, but we will be sorry to see another option for sailors disappear.

Mike and Brenda
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Old 28-02-2016, 06:48   #101
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by SVNeko View Post
Don't know what you sail or what you know, but an IP will easily make 7kn.

On a reach even loaded for cruising with full tanks etc I easily get 7 kts in 12 kts or wind and a 10 deg heel, that is her sweet spot, but 8 is tough, and I've never seen 9, I will reef for comfort before then, idea of this boat is comfort over speed.
But I do not have the stock sail plan either, and that may have something to do with it.
They are not fast boats, nor race boats. Using the automobile analogy, they are no Porsche, more of a Lincoln Continental, maybe station wagon / SUV if you will.
Yes of course there are Achilles heels, there are in every boat. First perfect boat to be made will likely pretty soon outsell every other boat there is, yet to be done of course.


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Old 28-02-2016, 06:50   #102
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

All the lamenting about them going out of business- the truth is, if you want an IP, they are well enough built and maintained that you can pick one up used. Better to spend extra money on a complete refit and you'll still be ahead of what a new one cost.

So if you want an IP, there will always be some on the used market.

Maybe the mass production builders have it right- build a cheap boat that will wear out in 10-15 years. If the build is too high quality, the boats will eventually saturate the used market and no one wants to buy new....


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Old 28-02-2016, 06:51   #103
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Connie.
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Old 28-02-2016, 06:58   #104
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Don't know what you sail or what you know, but an IP will easily make 7kn.
8.5 in 15 knots wind....but the facts are often annoying to many.
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Old 28-02-2016, 07:02   #105
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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"If you want to buy tools these days you go to Harbor Frieght and you get cheap affordable tools, boat buyers are no different. The average Joe does not want or simply can't buy quality anymore. We are conditioned to accept "good enough"and that's unlikely to change."

Harbor Freight tools have their purpose, but obviously you never worked as a mechanic every day with that junk.
My tools do not come from Harbor Freight and I choose my sailboat differently as well
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