Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-02-2016, 16:02   #76
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 329
Re: Island Packet Closing doors

I notice quite a few comments regarding "modern" boat design, and how pathetic old grandpas are in their preferences for "antiquated", "traditional" boat design.

Does that indicate that boat design must continue to evolve in order to produce more seaworthy vessels? Or is the emphasis now on "see"worthy? Are we to believe that boats must evolve to meet market demands, and those features that "modern" sailors demand based on what they see in yachting magazines?

We're not talking about automobiles or smartphones here, but a vessel that must be able to survive the harsh conditions found at sea. I'm not trying to start a pissing contest here, but I am truly interested in the opinions of people that actually understand how important certain aspects of boat design are.

If IP is going belly up for economic reasons that is one thing, but if they are done because their design philosophy is "outdated" are we losing something here?
__________________

__________________
Sailing55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2016, 16:06   #77
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,877
Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Quote:
Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum View Post

My thoughts on the tri: My initial reaction to catamarans was how ugly they were compared to sleek multihulls. I've come around to liking them (I have an older mono) and would consider owning one if I didn't have to rent a slip to keep one and could afford a decent one. IMO the tri is no less attractive then cats are. It seems to me it's one more case of personal opinion based on many things. It looks like there could be some definite advantages to a tri. I'm sure there are disadvantages to of some sort.
It's not so much a question of aesthetics. It's that it tries to be both a tri and a cat and gains the advantages of neither. I think a lot of it was old mono thinking that heavily built is better built.

If you look at it bow on, it looks like a mono with training wheels (training hulls?)
__________________

__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2016, 16:31   #78
Registered User
 
Training Wheels's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Left coast.
Posts: 673
Re: Island Packet Closing doors

I have never been on an IP cat.
__________________
Training Wheels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2016, 16:42   #79
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,363
Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Quote:
Originally Posted by clockwork orange View Post
I'm curious what you know about the manufacturing process, could you please explain the process for those of us that have not been in the IP factory. I agree that they were way too late with a modern design but I don't know about the build.

Steve.
Yes, please elaborate maybe some of us ex boat builders/managers can learn something....
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2016, 16:44   #80
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,387
Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Quote:
Originally Posted by alansmith View Post
I agree about the European designs. Clean, sophisticated, in tune with people's desires, innovative, and sexy.
No handholds, no travelers, no rounded corners.

What's next? Sails optional?
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2016, 16:47   #81
Registered User
 
RainDog's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Varies
Boat: Pacific Seacraft 34 #142
Posts: 1,183
Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
The people like their boats are those in the nursing home or 6 ft under. The sad part is those will not buy their overpriced new boats.
Several people have made comments like this. I think you all are completely wrong. I have met about a dozen people cruising on Island Packets in the past year. From the looks of them, 5 were under 40 and none of them were over 60. Island Packets continue to be a very popular choice for younger cruisers.

I think they are ugly and would not want one personally, but I do recognize that for the price they offer a ton of room at a really shallow draft in a well built package. In the Gulf of Mexico, Keys, Bahamas, and ICW 4' vs. 5' of draft can make a huge difference. Some of the IPs are closer to 3' draft. That is very compelling if you sail down here.
RainDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2016, 16:47   #82
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,363
Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
No handholds, no travelers, no rounded corners.

What's next? Sails optional?
Yes, I especially like the pressboard cabinet doors with the overlays, the saildrive, the wet core hulls, the plastic seacocks and the keels that fall off. No wonder they are so loved!
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2016, 19:03   #83
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,048
Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Manufacturing wise, I was there last Summer and it was obvious business wasn't booming. They were manufacturing Seaward boats too I believe and had a small refit line going, but it was mostly empty with an obvious skeleton crew.
I liken an IP to say old world furniture, it is apparently cost prohibitive to manufacture and not many people around as there used to be that are Craftsmen that can.

From a how is it built perspective, they are or were essentially hand built boats, no computer controlled anything that I saw, glass hand laid etc.


Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
a64pilot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2016, 19:04   #84
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 38.1
Posts: 244
Re: Island Packet Closing doors

A couple thoughts...

A good friend of mine here has been a boat broker since the 1980's and sold IP's at the local dealer for a while. Already by the late 2000's sales were anemic to say the least. I realize that IP has always been a little more of a US east coast shallow water thing, but still with the people buying and outfitting boats here for the Pacific you'd think they'd be selling. They were back in the 90's and early 2000's. By 2009-2011 the entire dealer was moving less than 1 boat a year. They never recovered and he told me recently that they had finally sold a new boat last year after maybe a couple years without any new sales. The dealer was selling used boats of all types, and it does appear that used IPs are cycling through. I'd guess that the market for a slow and steady, full keel boat with the IP looks (which some people love and some don't) is very limited, and the stock of used boats on the market more than satisfies demand. BTW he'd long since left and is selling used boats currently.

Second, I was pretty interested in the BlueJacket 40 when it came out. It's certainly not a bad boat, but nothing really exciting. Having seriously gone through them a couple times at boat shows (including the January show here just a month ago) I can say the build quality and cost were completely out of whack with each other. Yes, a bit better than the big French brands, but the glass work, fittings, and wood work were not up to the quality of, say, Tartan or X Yachts (or IP's for that matter). Yet this boat equipped was basically $500k, for what was really a 39 foot boat! If you want to drop a half mil on a 40 footer you can get a Tartan 4000 for the same price and it's a vastly better boat. IMO if the BJ40 had been $250k base it would have sold.

Last, I have some good friends with IP38, and I was their weather router and shore side support for their crossing from San Diego to Hawaii a couple years ago. They had lived aboard for years so they knew their boat. It's certainly comfortable and well built (I helped them with various projects and it's a really good boat). But in the trade winds it's a surprisingly sluggish boat. From what I could see it's the classic "goes great on a reach" type of boat. I'm not one to slag any boat - they're popular and the owners love them - but even they were pretty shocked at how it sailed in the trades. On our last trip to Hawaii we spent a long time with them over drinks talking through how to improve the offwind sailplan before they head to the south Pacific.
__________________
gjorgensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2016, 19:05   #85
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 183
Re: Island Packet Closing doors

My IP is part of my family...I love it & it loves me...you can`t buy that at Walmart.

rip IP
__________________
Eder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2016, 19:18   #86
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,454
Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eder View Post
My IP is part of my family...I love it & it loves me...you can`t buy that at Walmart.

rip IP
No, but on weekends folks often give away puppies in the car park!

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2016, 19:18   #87
Senior Cruiser
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Adriatic Sea
Boat: Oyster 53 Cutter
Posts: 8,511
Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDabs View Post
The problem with any type of crossover, really.
I saw the Blue Jacket 40 at the boat show just last week. Base price was $475k if I remember correctly... Laughable when compared to the European boats in the next display being offered at under $300k. I got the feeling that it was the same overpriced boat the same dealer was trying to unload at the same New England boat show last season.

When will the American sailboat manufacturers finally understand what the market wants instead of continuing to push designs from the 1980's that nobody (with the money to buy one) seems to want?
__________________
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2016, 20:11   #88
Registered User
 
ErBrown's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Austin TX
Boat: IP 40
Posts: 361
Re: Island Packet Closing doors

We chose a 15 year old used and extremely well maintained IP because for the cost we found the quality, fit finish, space and capabilities to be a great combination for our open ended cruising plans.

Do I think the IP boats are the prettiest boats out their from a pure aesthetics perspective. No, I love the looks of the Pacific Seacraft, Hinkley and the older smaller Oysters, but for me each of them is a lot of $$ for not enough space. Since our plans are to live aboard full time and cruise, space was a priority for us and we weren't willing to compromise on our perception of build quality...so IP was a great fit...for us. If I was faced with the same boat buying decision again, I'd buy her again. I feel like we got a lot of boat (from a quality and capability perspective), for the $, and I'm fairly sure she's going to take us to some amazing places in the near future...and to me...that makes her freaking beautiful...

That being said, I can't imagine us EVER stepping up to spend the $$$ to afford a new one. I'd just never do it, and to me that's what hurts them more than anything. Too many of us either can't or wont afford a $500-600k new boat. When we can get a super high quality well maintained, "go anywhere boat" used boat for a 1/4 of that and spend the rest out doing what they're meant to do.

For me, I think the boating world is more interesting with IP in it and for that reason, I hope they pull through.
__________________
vela-boat.com (a work in progress)
ErBrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2016, 20:24   #89
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Mexico, working on the boat
Boat: Hallberg Rassy 35. and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,013
Images: 5
Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemenza View Post
Read employees from IP and a few other builders built a boat for the Miami boat show...

Funny everybody seems to miss the point... The World economy is in tatters with no recovery in sight.. Because all the half the butter and all the cream has been skimmed into the pockets of a very, very small group of very, very wealthy individuals and the IMF ( a whole other story of wealth concentration that benefits nobody but the people running it)..
No...I think you miss the point. This IS about IPY closing doors and not a political forum for you to push an agenda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nortonscove View Post
Let's call it what it is...glorified motor sailer. No longer the preferred style. People see what is possible and it crushes old school.
Yes, unlike those beautiful modern bar of soaps in the water the cheapie factories are bouncing out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Jer View Post
Amen, I always chuckle when I meet the ones who just downsized to a storage locker to live on a boat and they have snap on tools hahaha. Less than three months later you hear them berating themselves for with dropping them over the side of whining how rusty they're snap on tools have become.
Really? you see this a lot? Odd. Snap On offers a life time guaranty including chrome finish, no questions asked. Now...you would be stretching the truth a little bit would you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
No handholds, no travelers, no rounded corners.

What's next? Sails optional?
Ha ha...ya but other than that, they're great!
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"

http://wwwjolielle.blogspot.com/
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2016, 20:49   #90
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Portsmouth, RI
Boat: Hylas 49, Cutter Rigged Sloop
Posts: 109
Re: Island Packet Closing doors

I had an IP45 for 10 years and ran the Northeast IP rendezvous. We often had 30 or more boats at these events and it was/is an incredibly strong community.

IP initially made a great boat, but they didn't take the 10 good years they had to create a long-term, sustainable product. Its a classic case of "strategic inflection points" not being handled real well.

Initially, their new boats were a good value, but got increasingly expensive as each year went on. Eventually, the cost of the new boat was not perceived as a good value when compared to high volume manufacturers such as Benetau, Jeannau or Hanse. IP didn't make the manufacturing transition needed to keep prices in line. When I looked at upgrading my IP45 to an IPw485, I found that it cost $200K more for a no-options IP with a badly laid out interior than my custom HYLAS with lots of personal design touches and higher end hardware.

You could avoid the high volume manufacturing investments if you were going to make a custom product that was attractive and tailored to each client. Hinkley, Oyster and Hylas went that route and do well today. IP's were neither fish nor foul. They were not custom but they were more expensive than those from high volume manufacturers. Additionally, while the later hull designs were probably fine, the volume they provided was inefficiently used for interior design. Anyone who has seen the IP485 (a 53' boat) and how poorly the interior salon space is laid out, knows what i mean. Or the SP Cruiser, or the 30 degree angled berths where they could have easily been centerline.

There were good people in the company, and I loved my IP45, but clearly IP needed to transition to a new model and it didn't happen.

Rick
Hylas 49-057
S/V Black Diamond
Portsmouth, RI.
__________________

__________________
Black Diamond is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
island packet

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Watertight Companionway Doors Southern Star Construction, Maintenance & Refit 6 04-04-2010 15:25
Bluewater Cats with 'Sliding Doors' and Hard Bimini HobieFan Multihull Sailboats 28 28-08-2009 06:14
Gunboat 62 Blows Doors Off Reichel-Pugh 80 David M Multihull Sailboats 150 16-05-2009 13:38
Watertight doors on cats. David M Multihull Sailboats 15 10-03-2008 18:55
companionway doors mario f Construction, Maintenance & Refit 13 12-11-2007 06:53



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:42.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.