Island Packet Closing doors

[Scaramanga F25]

you forgot: then and than
.

[a64pilot]

I type form when I mean from, I know the difference, just can't type for squat. Seems I'm dyslexic on a keyboard?
Then autocorrect can come up with some interesting things when I'm on the Ipad

[jeepbluetj]

My pet peeve is thread drift... (not really, I just thought that was funny)

real pet peeve? web sight vs site with hand bearing compass. Dunno why that bugs me.

[Rohan]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I've said for the last ten years or so that our generation is the last one to privately fly and I believe that, there will be a few, but the days of the average but successful builder, plumber, electrician etc of having and flying a private airplane are over.

There are some problems with the comparison. For one thing, private planes are waaaay more expensive than they should be. Even a small Beechcraft plane costs well over 700,000 dollars new. A used one like 40 years old will cost you at least 200,000. Essentially, it's the cost of a house, which is ludicrous when you consider the materials to build it are about the same as those to build a truck. But the same part on a plane can cost several times what it does on an automobile. Part of the reason is due to the fact that they aren't mass produced on the same scale cars are (which is a similar situation to yachts), but the other reason is that that the aircraft industry has had to pay out a lot of money in lawsuits over the years, which is a cost they have to pass on to the customer. Nearly every time a plane crashes, there is some kind of lawsuit involved. I don't think that's the case with boats.

Finally, to get a pilot's license costs between $5,000-10,000 because you have to pay for aircraft rental, fuel, and instructor time anywhere between 40-70 hours (depending on the type of pilot license). So overall, it's a much bigger entry hurdle to jump over than sailing is.

[tdoster]

Originally Posted by Rohan

There are some problems with the comparison. For one thing, private planes are waaaay more expensive than they should be. Even a small Beechcraft plane costs well over 700,000 dollars new. A used one like 40 years old will cost you at least 200,000. Essentially, it's the cost of a house, which is ludicrous when you consider the materials to build it are about the same as those to build a truck. But the same part on a plane can cost several times what it does on an automobile. Part of the reason is due to the fact that they aren't mass produced on the same scale cars are (which is a similar situation to yachts), but the other reason is that that the aircraft industry has had to pay out a lot of money in lawsuits over the years, which is a cost they have to pass on to the customer. Nearly every time a plane crashes, there is some kind of lawsuit involved. I don't think that's the case with boats.

Finally, to get a pilot's license costs between $5,000-10,000 because you have to pay for aircraft rental, fuel, and instructor time anywhere between 40-70 hours (depending on the type of pilot license). So overall, it's a much bigger entry hurdle to jump over than sailing is.

WHAT!!!!

To get into flying is as much as getting into sailing. You can buy a good CURRENT learner Cessna 150 or even 172 for ~50K. Or a low wing Piper next step for just a few bucks more +70's vintage. Hanger space at the small fields is less than I pay for a 40' slip. Yea, you have to get licensed, but no harder to pass than a 6 pack and you can roll some of the flight time costs into your own airplane and plenty of pilots willing to take you up in your plane for the price of lunch for time. What does get expensive are the required annuals on your airplane and required overhauls.

And if you want to get down into the ultra lights...

The analogy of light aircraft is pretty close to right on with boats. They quit building small single engine airplanes because the market started to dry up just as it did for smaller sailboats 25-35'. Just the upper 1% wanting Citations and other million plus small jets. Aircraft seem to be aging the same as boats as it is common to see 70's era single-engine planes everywhere.

Maybe another analogy equal might be they built so many in the 60's and 70's that Cessna et all could not compete with themselves in that market. Don't kid yourself with the lawsuits being the reason. Companies don't pay, their insurance companies do. They get higher premiums in return just like the rest of us, but that didn't stop any of them from popping out jets left and right, which is a far bigger target. I digress...


NOW. Has anyone heard anything about IP? We are now mid-March and if the rumors are true on a new owner, they sure are not helping their investment any.

[a64pilot]

A good, solid Cessna 150 / 152 ought to be in the 20's, yes you can spend 50K, but it ought to be close to a show plane.
I bought my Maule about 10 years ago for 50K, completely went though it over those ten years, new fabric, interior, new engine, new prop, all new avionincs sold it a couple of yeas ago for 85K.

1983 Model Maule, M6-235 I think price is all over what a boat cost to purchase and operate / insure etc.

[robert sailor]

I've owned a lot of light aircraft over the years and believe me it was a lot cheaper than fooling around on sailboats BUT our sailboat is our home and our source of adventure and we get lots back for the money we spend.

[scuba0_1]

We are leaving st Thomas today and was surprised that in all the marinas and anchors we have been to in the last week IP are every where. To bad to see them go.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Sailor_Hutch]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

OK on my old boat the beige isn't very noticeable as it has faded over time, but point was for me, color of the boat probably mattered the least of all the things I was looking for.
I understand to others it may be a deal killer.

Oh and I think I will truly be an old man before I see self driving cars, although I see no downside of that, and can see very many advantages to it. I think the one in a million chance something will go wrong is enough to make several lawyers very rich, although I do feel it would save Lord knows how many lives, ease traffic congestion, save fuel and on and on.

Talk about thread drift

Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum

The big difference is, from my POV, that nowadays you hop in your car and go wherever you want. In the self driving car era, you'll do the same except you may be stopped or delayed for some "beaurocratic" reason ... Or a no-car-ride-authorization list. I see it as turning all transporation into a type of "public transportation" - meaning that your travelling is only at their discretion ... The way it is now, they have discretion to limit your driving once every ten years (say - if you flunk the eyesite test), or have been DWUI, etc. When we have self driven cars, every trip will be decided for you ...

[Sailor_Hutch]

Let's say you just got divorced. Any trip you apply for ... that goes closer to your ex spouse's home than say ... file miles ... will be disallowed. That's bad enough (although there may be good reason for it, based on some particular circumstances or judge's order) - but even more onerous is that you will be keying your destination into a database ...

[a64pilot]

You know I can remember as a kid, that we would all have flying cars by now, and a well established base on both the Moon and Mars.
I don't think I will live long enough to see any of that, same for the self driving cars

[Sailor_Hutch]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

You know I can remember as a kid, that we would all have flying cars by now, and a well established base on both the Moon and Mars.
I don't think I will live long enough to see any of that, same for the self driving cars

Yeah - I hope you're right. What I'm worried about are the self driving yachts. Hey - wait a minute ...

[tdoster]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

A good, solid Cessna 150 / 152 ought to be in the 20's, yes you can spend 50K, but it ought to be close to a show plane.
I bought my Maule about 10 years ago for 50K, completely went though it over those ten years, new fabric, interior, new engine, new prop, all new avionincs sold it a couple of yeas ago for 85K.

1983 Model Maule, M6-235 I think price is all over what a boat cost to purchase and operate / insure etc.

I qualified it by 70's era. Yes, 1950's and 1960's 152 in the 20's, but far stretch for 70's vintage, wouldn't you say for a good used current? Yes, you can even find 172's under 30K, but they are probably sitting tied to ground under the sun for years and bare bones VFR with nothing upgraded.

The correlation is much closer to boats and that is my argument against Rohan stating a used airplane is in the 100's+ and more expensive hobby.

Unless we are talking the difference between bank financing and cash... Another correlation between airplanes and boats.

I can spend 250K on a super clean, current, and bank friendly 2008 Cessna 18, but I can also spend the same thing on a 2008 IP.

Wow, this thread may win the prize for most topics in a single thread. So, new owners or old owners of IP. It is time to come out of the shadows, every day is not helping the brand any.

[a64pilot]

I don't see how the factory going under has anything at all to do with the boats.
Boat companies and airplane companies, change ownership and come and go all the time.
Now if for example the last couple of years, if they really cut corners and built shoddy, well then that matters, but I've heard of none of that.

[tdoster]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I don't see how the factory going under has anything at all to do with the boats.
Boat companies and airplane companies, change ownership and come and go all the time.
Now if for example the last couple of years, if they really cut corners and built shoddy, well then that matters, but I've heard of none of that.

If the new or old owners would just come out and tell us what the heck is going on, there probably would not be so much thread drift. Question answered and back to our regularly scheduled program.

Until then, it is only human to speculate and that can drift way over the edge if they wait long enough. It is not doing the IP brand any good not answering the phone and those that know forced under NDA to keep quiet about what they know.

The longer they wait to make an announcement, the worse it is looking for confidence in the brand.