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Old 02-03-2016, 09:16   #271
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by frozenhawaiian View Post
I agree with all of this. I'll also add that I think IP refused to evolve to the tastes of modern cruisers.
Well Bob Johnson was designing boats at Endeavor in the 80s before founding Island Packet and basically building boats at IP with the same basic thinking. So that makes IP boats 30+ years old in their design thinking.
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Old 02-03-2016, 09:36   #272
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
....
But I do not believe the average cruiser is a new boat buyer, and of course manufacturers do, or should anyway listen to the people who buy new boats. The second person to buy their boat is irrelevant.
So I don't think the average Cruiser is driving new boat design or manufacturing.

I believe a large number of new boat buyers buy new boats to impress others, they want to entertain and show off their latest toy, not all of course, but I believe a majority, Cruisers I believe are a minority of boat owners, more so new boats.
....
You have some funny opinions regarding the ones that have money to buy the boats they want (old or new).

All cruising boats are pleasure boats and unless they are used professionally can be considered toys. There are some toys better than others

You also have an odd and low opinion about the ones that buy new or used cruising boats. If not for cruising why the hell will someone will buy a cruising boat?

People cruise while using their boats for cruising. Some only have one month vacation and weekends for cruising, some are retired and have more time, some, very few live on the boat and some of those cruise from time to time but certainly they will not cruise all the time.

The person that buy a boat that a manufacturer sells to a client (2th to own the boat) is certainly no irrelevant to the manufacturer since a client from a new boat will sell it after about 5 years (typically) and the manufacturer knows that if he gets a low value on the boat it will lose a client.

Many clients just give the used boat to the brand dealer in exchange for a new one, so the dealer and the brand are interested that the used boat value to be as high as possible since that helps to sell new boats.

Another thing is to say that a brand only cares in what regards old boats in what concerns its reputation. If 20 year old Beneteus or Hanse started to lose keels you can be sure they would care because that is bad to reputation, but concerning minor issues they can care less about boats that have only a residual value, in many cases less than what cost the extras for a new boat.

And why should they care? they are not on the business of used old boats but on the business of new boats.

Regarding what most that use cruising boats want you should think that all charter operators are stupid.

If older boats were more economic to maintain, cheaper to buy and to own and if they were really what sailors want for sail and to cruise, the vast majority should be operating old boats, a much better business for sure, cheaper boats and the more desirable.

That is not what they do. Not a single bigger charter operator works with old boats, I let you thick why? Maybe the ones that charter cruising boats don't use them to cruise? Just to show to friends?
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Old 02-03-2016, 09:43   #273
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
The Internet Rumor Mill can run wild, that's for sure.

From: Jeff & Jean Grossman
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: Island Packet Sailboats......gone...bankrupt


We live near IP and are plugged into them.

IP IS NOT OUT OF BUSINESS!!!!

They changed ownership hands and the new owners "bobbled" the cut over. This info is straight from Bob Johnson.
You mean they Bankrupt and someone bailed them out?

It happened before with many brands but not all managed to survive many years after that. Generally the conditions needed for success is that the buyer has big means, a deep knowledge on the Industry and will be able to change things, modernizing production and sailboats, giving clients what they want at a competitive price.

Let's see how this one will turn out. If things are maintained like they are, boats and prices, then it will not change nothing in what regards the outcome.

Some statement about who are the new owners and what they want to do with Island Packet?
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Old 02-03-2016, 09:46   #274
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Charter operators have very different requirements and tax considerations which often are the exact opposite of a private boat owner. So I would not compare the two in the same breath. In fact, IMO the charter boats more like car rental models (with few exceptions of course) are built with a certain life cycle in mind during which they would be cheaper to maintain but beyond that cycle - who cares.

Besides, most charter boats as most rental cars are not used for long haul drives nor for non stop lengthy sails. So, for boats at least, the builder's goal is to make a boat "good enough" to do some island hopping without falling apart until the charter mechanics can get to it.

No wonder where I live (and probably elsewhere) the phrase "ex-charter" or "ex-rental" are price busters no matter how well they were maintained. The worst for cars is only a label of "ex-LE vehicle".
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Old 02-03-2016, 09:56   #275
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
You mean they Bankrupt and someone bailed them out?
No I didn't mean anything, which is why I cut/pasted the email from someone who purports to know what's going on vs. 19 pages of rumor mill.

But rumor mill is much more fun...so we not take you back to your regularly scheduled program.
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Old 02-03-2016, 10:05   #276
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

In the US I think most sailors do consider older boats cheaper to own and maintain. Many sailors here tend to DIY which helps drive the cost down as well. If you go into the wealthy boating enclaves here in the northeast you will see the average age of the boats is close to 20 years old and that' s in a wealthy area.

It should also be noted that while the big charter companies run new boats most of the small ones run boats in the 15-20 year old range. I know a number of boats built in the 80's and 90's in charter service here in the north east.
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Old 02-03-2016, 10:39   #277
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
By new, I was talking new IP's, and I think they went for 500K or something like that, and at 500K, I was postulating your getting into the wealthier boat buyers, ones that could afford custom if they were the type, and if they were just wealthy and buying a new toy, likely they wouldn't keep it long.
Personally I don't have enough money to put 500k into a rapidly depreciating piece of property, just so it would be new.
IIRC $500k is for the smaller boats. The 485's listed on Yachtworld are around $800,000 for newer models. A few years ago the 36 footer starting price was around $350K.
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Old 02-03-2016, 11:02   #278
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

I'm sure your right, I glanced at a couple when I was looking, but they were so far out of my price range that it was just a glance.

I bought a boat to see if sailing and possible cruising / living on a boat would be right for us, therefore my criteria was to not buy a project and to buy something that I felt I could get out of and not put a whole lot of money in. This was meant to be only a boat to see if we liked the lifestyle, it was NOT meant to be "THE" boat. If we liked it, then I would put some real money in "THE" boat, and sell the starter boat.

I first bought a much newer, like less than 5 yr old "production" boat that had been meticulously maintained and extensively upgraded by an Electrical Engineer, but it busted survey on a couple of major structural issues.

I ended up buying this old IP for pretty much of a steal as it had essentially no equipment, not even a windlass, no autopilot, nothing, she had obviously been a dock Queen. The more I dug into her and really looking hard at the systems etc., I discovered that there was no reason to buy another boat, there was nothing wrong with this ole Gal, yes the Gelcoat has faded, but it still shines, just is a lot lighter in color. But, the wife likes her, and that is the most important thing.
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Old 02-03-2016, 11:08   #279
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I'm sure your right, I glanced at a couple when I was looking, but they were so far out of my price range that it was just a glance.

I bought a boat to see if sailing and possible cruising / living on a boat would be right for us, therefore my criteria was to not buy a project and to buy something that I felt I could get out of and not put a whole lot of money in. This was meant to be only a boat to see if we liked the lifestyle, it was NOT meant to be "THE" boat. If we liked it, then I would put some real money in "THE" boat, and sell the starter boat.

I first bought a much newer, like less than 5 yr old "production" boat that had been meticulously maintained and extensively upgraded by an Electrical Engineer, but it busted survey on a couple of major structural issues.

I ended up buying this old IP for pretty much of a steal as it had essentially no equipment, not even a windlass, no autopilot, nothing, she had obviously been a dock Queen. The more I dug into her and really looking hard at the systems etc., I discovered that there was no reason to buy another boat, there was nothing wrong with this ole Gal, yes the Gelcoat has faded, but it still shines, just is a lot lighter in color. But, the wife likes her, and that is the most important thing.
You just articulated what so many seem unable to understand. You bought a solid older boat that felt comfortable enough, adapted yourself to that boat and install the systems/comforts that apply to you, your wife, and your particular lifestyle. I would be surprised if you don't find yourself cruising around enjoying yourself in a boat that does just what you ask it to do.
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Old 02-03-2016, 12:51   #280
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
The Internet Rumor Mill can run wild, that's for sure.

From: Jeff & Jean Grossman
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: Island Packet Sailboats......gone...bankrupt


We live near IP and are plugged into them.

IP IS NOT OUT OF BUSINESS!!!!

They changed ownership hands and the new owners "bobbled" the cut over. This info is straight from Bob Johnson.
I appreciate the comment, but I think it is incumbent for IP to make a statement, especially since that eviction notice was posted on their doors. I maybe driving by there tomorrow, although not sure what knowledge that would add other than to confirm the doors are open or not.

Perhaps you could provide a bit more detail if you are aware of it?

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Old 02-03-2016, 12:55   #281
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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but I think it is incumbent for IP to make a statement,
There is a lot of chatter on all sailing forums and facebook group about the current situation with the Island Packet Yachts Factory. People are posting many items, notices and various hearsay facts. Everyone is under a full non-disclosure contract and we are not allowed to post or share any information. News will be forthcoming in March, ASAP.
WE ALL need to wait until Bill Bolin, Bob Johnson or any Factory representative releases the OFFICIAL news. So, until then, we need to just wait.


(source)
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Old 02-03-2016, 13:05   #282
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Perhaps you could provide a bit more detail if you are aware of it?
Already posted all the info I have...
See above post.

This is a case study in how the internet rumor will and grapevine game works....quite funny to watch.
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Old 02-03-2016, 13:09   #283
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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This is a case study in how the internet rumor will and grapevine game works....quite funny to watch.

An eviction notice is not Internet rumor.
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Old 02-03-2016, 13:13   #284
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Already posted all the info I have...
See above post.

This is a case study in how the internet rumor will and grapevine game works....quite funny to watch.
Just to add grist to the mill... I've tried calling yesterday and today, and all it I get is a busy signal. It means something, as does the eviction notice. Again, if you are aware of other information, and are not under a confidentiality constraint, please advise us.

Many people hope that IP is in fact still open or in existence. They built good boats, even if not everyone's cup of tea.
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Old 02-03-2016, 13:16   #285
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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An eviction notice is not Internet rumor.
Very true, but it also doesn't mean it's the end of IPY.
Could be, might be, but there are other possibilities as well.

As I posted before; this topic is like having a funeral while the patient is still in the ICU. No matter how minimal his chances are, it's still a bit early for a funeral
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