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Old 01-03-2016, 09:32   #241
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

I think IP has solved both the chainplate and water/ holding tank issues. 18-8 SS was the industry standard back in the 80's and 90's. Turns out if you weld 18-8 you can get into a problem called weld decay along the boundary of the weld. In the late 90's they changed to 316 L which is not subject to the weld decay issues.

New models also have fiberglass water and holding tanks. BJ says that in earlier times there was no FDA approved resins to build water tanks. He had actually used poly water tanks early on but decided to stick with the aluminum as the lesser of the evils. The aluminum water tank issue is chlorine in domestic water supply and overzealous owners that dump some bleach in for good measure.

I inspected the inside of the water tank on Cbreeze (through the sending unit hole) before I bought her. Not great but there were not a lot of centerboard boats on the market so I "paid my money and took my chances". The input strainer ahead of the water pump was packed with the chloride crystals initially, but after 10 years of filling the tank with well water the problem is completely absent and the tank is still holding.

The newer IPs all carry a big price tag and that has got to have played a large part in slow sales. I keep my chainplates well sealed, chlorine out of my water tank, and my fingers crossed. The holding tanks on the 90's boats are usually located under the salon seating so easy to get at. My next holding tank will be made from G10 glass sheets and hopefully be the last.

Topsides/ deck gel coat is getting pretty tired so a new polyurethane Sunday Suit is not too far in the future. Not bad for a 25 year old boat that will probably outlast the current owner.
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Old 01-03-2016, 11:08   #242
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
So the closest we have come to a new IP buyer is someone who thought seriously about it half a decate ago.

Given the selection of people on this site (lots of serious cruisers), thats not a good sign for a production boat builder who's focus claims to be seriuos cruisers.
There are two dedicated IP forums where you will find plenty of happy customers who bought new boats from IP.
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Old 01-03-2016, 11:40   #243
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by morven55 View Post
You forgot to mention that the lighter boat also has accelerated motion is heavy weather. There are tradeoffs for everything. Light displacement boats have very quick rolling. pitching, etc. when conditions get interesting. Better hold on tight!
True of course. You make your choice and live with it. Personally, for cruising I am leaning towards heavy....but not too heavy. A cruising boat doesn't have to be fast, as long as I can sail the boat in very light airs. If not, it's a sad motor sailor in my opinion. Not claiming my opinion to be superior, but it works for me ;-)
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Old 01-03-2016, 11:46   #244
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

I'm trying to figure out how Ken broke the table, it's fully supported on one end by a Piano hinge and to me it's sort of the center piece of the Salon, it folds up completely out of the way, has a wine rack behind it and is strong enough that I have stood and sat on it, and I'm no little guy.

If anyone is interested, this is my old boat, I didn't take the video a broker did, I ran into it after I bought the boat, from a different broker

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Old 01-03-2016, 11:57   #245
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

The RV comparisons are somewhat valid - i.e. "retirement house" replacement.

There's two problems comparing sailboats and RVs.

The vast majority of RVs are built as cheaply as possible. The lowest quality components. Even the "good ones" are pretty crap until you get up to a real bus conversion. Because of this, they depreciate very fast, and the used ones are crap. (I own a 16 year old MH... ) Go look at used RVs and you'll find most over 5 years old leak, cabinetry is broken, fabrics are very worn, etc... So the used market doesn't compete with the new market in the same way as sailboats.

Secondly, far less folks are sailing. It's just not a growing pastime. Part of that market is going to power. Sad, as my favorite moment on a boat is when the engine is shut off.
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Old 01-03-2016, 11:58   #246
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
There is the general idea that a guy that has the money to buy new has the money for jets or vacations houses. Many times the vacation house is the boat and regarding custom boats they cost generally 50% to 100% more than a small production boat and can have problems that a builder that makes a small series has already sorted out.

Guys that have a budget of 300k for a new boat are not on the same league than the ones that have 500k and this one are not on the same league as the ones that have 1 million neither these ones are on the league of the ones that have several millions. Only the ones that are on the last two categories will normally consider custom boats.

It is good not to forget that a good aluminum voyage boat like the Garcia 45 will cost over 700k and a 52 will cost well over 1 million US dollars. Expensive for many, affordable for some but that does not mean that the ones that can afford them can afford jets or custom boats of that size and type.

Regarding money and new boats the European economy is no better than the American one, quite the contrary, it is just that cruising and sailing is more popular in Europe among all classes including the ones that have money for expensive boats.


By new, I was talking new IP's, and I think they went for 500K or something like that, and at 500K, I was postulating your getting into the wealthier boat buyers, ones that could afford custom if they were the type, and if they were just wealthy and buying a new toy, likely they wouldn't keep it long.
Personally I don't have enough money to put 500k into a rapidly depreciating piece of property, just so it would be new.
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:07   #247
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

I believe the recreational marine market in the US is something like 200,000 boats a year. Power and sail all sizes (but not Canoe's and Kayaks). Sailboats are between 3,000 to 7,000 a year depending on what industry trade magazine you read of that I have heard estimates that about 2,200 are sailboats with aux engine so that would cover westwight potters on up. If 300 imported from Europe is accurate that would be a reasonably large percentage plus Beneteau does have a US factory in SC.
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:08   #248
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by svrodeorm View Post
True of course. You make your choice and live with it. Personally, for cruising I am leaning towards heavy....but not too heavy. A cruising boat doesn't have to be fast, as long as I can sail the boat in very light airs. If not, it's a sad motor sailor in my opinion. Not claiming my opinion to be superior, but it works for me ;-)
100% agreed...I like the feel and motion of a relatively heavy boat, along with a good turn of speed. After all, to me at least, cruising is not meeting schedules, just enjoying the trip...a well designed, easily driven hull, even of heavy displacement will move along quite well in light airs.
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:46   #249
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by Colin A View Post
I believe the recreational marine market in the US is something like 200,000 boats a year. Power and sail all sizes (but not Canoe's and Kayaks). Sailboats are between 3,000 to 7,000 a year depending on what industry trade magazine you read of that I have heard estimates that about 2,200 are sailboats with aux engine so that would cover westwight potters on up. If 300 imported from Europe is accurate that would be a reasonably large percentage plus Beneteau does have a US factory in SC.
I don't think those 300 boats include the Beneteaus and Jeanneaus made in the US but only imported European boats. Only Beneteau and Jeanneau made in US put together has to be more than 300 boats a year otherwise it would not make sense making them in the US.

If so, those 300 boats would be mostly Bavaria some Hanse and Dufour, the ones that import more boats to the States.

Anybody knows how much Jeanneaus and Beneteaus are made each year on the US factories?
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Old 01-03-2016, 13:24   #250
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

In a pdf from Murray Yacht Sales it states, in the Benetaeu plant in Myrtle Beach, 240 Americans produce 400-500 boats each year.

Link is to the pdf....

http://www.murrayyachtsales.com/wp-c...reams-2005.pdf

It states "today", I did not try to determine the date of the document.
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Old 01-03-2016, 18:08   #251
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I'm trying to figure out how Ken broke the table, it's fully supported on one end by a Piano hinge and to me it's sort of the center piece of the Salon, it folds up completely out of the way, has a wine rack behind it and is strong enough that I have stood and sat on it, and I'm no little guy.

If anyone is interested, this is my old boat, I didn't take the video a broker did, I ran into it after I bought the boat, from a different broker


Nice boat! Huge interior for 38 footer


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
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Old 01-03-2016, 18:18   #252
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
...

If anyone is interested, this is my old boat, I didn't take the video a broker did, I ran into it after I bought the boat, from a different broker
Love the 38. Very nice boat, a64pilot.
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Old 01-03-2016, 18:35   #253
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by four winds View Post
In a pdf from Murray Yacht Sales it states, in the Benetaeu plant in Myrtle Beach, 240 Americans produce 400-500 boats each year.

Link is to the pdf....

http://www.murrayyachtsales.com/wp-c...reams-2005.pdf

It states "today", I did not try to determine the date of the document.
Well, that is a start but that was more than 10 years ago (I can see it by the boats) I guess that now they make more and there is also Jeanneau that probably will not making less with the huge success of the 379 and 349 so at least it seems that I was right regarding those 300 European boats regarding only imported European boats and not all European designed boats (jeanneau and Beneteau) sold in US.

So making a guess, among the two brands about a 1000 boats a year?

Can somebody find more relevant information about the number of mass production main market boats made in America on a year? Hunter? Catalina?
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Old 01-03-2016, 18:43   #254
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I'm trying to figure out how Ken broke the table, it's fully supported on one end by a Piano hinge and to me it's sort of the center piece of the Salon, it folds up completely out of the way, has a wine rack behind it and is strong enough that I have stood and sat on it, and I'm no little guy.

If anyone is interested, this is my old boat, I didn't take the video a broker did, I ran into it after I bought the boat, from a different broker
We didn't see the pin hole on the floor for leg placement, so on this boat a 485, when I lowered the table, the leg bent forward and tore off the leg hinge... collapsing the table.
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Old 01-03-2016, 18:49   #255
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post

Can somebody find more relevant information about the number of mass production main market boats made in America on a year? Hunter? Catalina?
Domestic made boat numbers total for 2013 (which is a good guess):

1,164 20ft and over
1,177 Multihulls BUT only #49 over 30ft

Multi's make for biggest import market.
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