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Old 29-02-2016, 15:42   #211
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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I cannot understand why you guys say that (not only you): European built on the cheaper side!!! Maybe because the European boats that reach the American market are only the cheaper ones?

There are brands for all tastes and quality regarding the European market.

If the only the cheaper mass production sailboats reach the American market it seems to me that's because those are the ones that the Americans want, otherwise you would see also on the American market, very high quality, very high priced European boats. You can find them here, even on the boat shows.
Yes you make a good point but we have few of the top European boats in NA but lots of the cheaper stuff. But to be fair even in the Med most of what you see are the cheap seats with the better built boats sprinkled in the mix.
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Old 29-02-2016, 15:52   #212
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

The American builders have lead keels, bigger engines more fuel capacity and usually a warranty on their rudders. I would not compromise on those. IP was a great company.


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Old 29-02-2016, 16:58   #213
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Name a company that hasn't went out of business at one time or another? Catalina maybe.. not sure if they ever did?
Cal, Ericson, Pacific Seacraft, Valiant, all the Asian companies, Japanese companies, Coronado, Seawind, Cape Dory, Westsail, Columbia, Niagara, Spencer, Skookum, Tollycraft and more all went out of business.
Thanks Bush's daddy for that one. Remember that stupid luxury tax? Oh my, trickle down economics only worked for the 1% even back then.
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Old 29-02-2016, 19:28   #214
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

I am still amazed that anyone ever buys a brand new boat. I once bought a brand new kayak, but every other boat has been used, either old or ancient.
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Old 29-02-2016, 19:38   #215
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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I am still amazed that anyone ever buys a brand new boat. I once bought a brand new kayak, but every other boat has been used, either old or ancient.
We bought a 1981 C22 in 1983.

We bought a 1981 C25 in 1987.

We bought a 1986 C34 in 1998. We looked at new at that time, it was twice the cost. By now, those new boat skippers have had to do pretty much what I've had to do to keep up with maintenance (hoses, stuffing box, electrical, etc.).

Your boat, your choice.

Nothing bad with new, 'cuz without 'em there'd be NO used boats.
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Old 29-02-2016, 19:52   #216
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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...
No one has had absolute success with a pilothouse to hit that segment, but the idea is still strong with the buyer. Difficult boats to build and make them function as good compromises for the American market with better but still varying success in Europe in my opinion.

Trying to pick up a segment that no longer wants the pains associated with sailing all of the time and living in weather gear">foul weather gear, but still wants to have the ability to sail when they want to. Nordhaven even is after this crowd with the 56MS.
There are several brands in Europe that only make deck/saloon pilot houses boats, all from the North of Europe were the climate is cold and they are all very small brands exploring a niche market.

Not saying that the market does not exist only disagreeing that it could be a type of boat to substitute the IP since the IP is pointed to a bigger market than the one of that type of pilot house boats point.
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Old 29-02-2016, 19:57   #217
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Okay, it is now March.

Maybe we'll learn what's really going on today.
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Old 29-02-2016, 19:59   #218
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Yes you make a good point but we have few of the top European boats in NA but lots of the cheaper stuff. But to be fair even in the Med most of what you see are the cheap seats with the better built boats sprinkled in the mix.
The point is: The European market offer a huge variety of boats with many brands making high quality boats. What you see most is what most people want, an inexpensive sailboat with some quality that suits their sailing and cruising needs.

If you want or need other type of boat you will find several shipyards doing them, from classics to several types of voyage boats, luxury cruisers and performance cruisers.

You can find that offer on boat shows even if it seems not to reach America for lack of demand. Most of the Americans that I know that have bought those boats come to Europe to buy them and then sail them to America.
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Old 29-02-2016, 21:22   #219
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

The closing of IP to me represents another loss of choice for boat buyers.Take a look at home appliances Amanna .Maytag. whirlpool I do believe the are all one parent company. Another is MTD the manufacturer of lawn care equipment they manufacture MRS brand White Troy built Sears Yardman .Holmes to name a few. Penn fishing reels and Connor reels are now owned by a company in Iowa I am guessing Berkley. My point is do you really only want to have the choice a a cookie cutter boat branded as a quality name brand from years ago . I. Don't see much difference in the above men f2f Jones products except for the name branding.
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Old 29-02-2016, 21:22   #220
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

There are very few new EU boats sold in USA, that is true. 303 in 2013 > 20ft
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Old 29-02-2016, 21:37   #221
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Another industry to look at is breweries the industry has become so efficient at fermenting that they were no longer making beer but a clear malted beverage which could be flavored anyway the manufacturer wants thus the flavored alcoholic beverages.Thus the rise of the craft breweries and small wineries maybe a company will start to build boats that may reverse or at least stem the tide of cookie cutter boats
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Old 29-02-2016, 21:43   #222
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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I think IP's general keel design has a lot to do with it's location in Florida. If you sail in Florida you either have run aground or will. Bolt on fin keels are simply not suitable for areas where shoaling is common & running aground must be a determining factor. In addition I think there's a lot to be said for blue water cruising in a boat that tracks like it's on rails.
I have an older boat ( Freedom ) with a bolt on keel. I don't agree that your at a disadvantage in regards to running aground. Prior to owning a fin keeler I would of.
Mostly when I've run aground it's been in mud or some bank and I find the fin keel spade rudder combination is so much easier to get yourself off, full rudder and throttle and you can spin yourself free. My last full keeler would run its self right up and lodge it's self like a fish hook.
Now in regards to running into hard stuff, which unfortunately I have done, I think we underestimate the strength of some of these fin keel boats, particularly the ones with lead keels. They just are no where near as delicate as I once believed.

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Old 29-02-2016, 22:15   #223
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Regarding IP going broke and speculating on the reasons is very difficult . Maybe it's a lot bigger than just not having the right product, or understanding market positioning. The rate of business closures in many industries is very large right now. It seems economically the world is in a deflationary position. There's been an over supply of "stuff" including boats due to massive credit expansion during the last 15 years or so. Maybe IP is a victim of a larger issue such as economic contraction? Something I've contemplated about in recent years is.....businesses need to build in resilience , they need to be able to expand or contact as the environment demands. My observation is that most can only expand and then the fundamental overheads ( costs that can't be altered) don't allow contraction when needed.
Businesses are more than just the products they sell.

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Old 29-02-2016, 22:39   #224
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Sorry I should add that the good businesses that survive a deflationary period generally come out the other end with greater market share. ....it's actually a form of natural selection.

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Old 01-03-2016, 01:04   #225
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Interesting take away from the various posts:
- Lots of folks want to buy them USED(presumably much cheaper)
- Lots of people lamenting loss of the option (but no indication they were about to buy a NEW one)

Not one person has posted that they were just about to buy a NEW one. A good USED boat market is a nice thing to have...except when it means there is no NEW boat market.

For all those lamenting the loss, put your money where your mouth is and IP will survive.

PS: I wish no ill upon the company, the workers or those who sail IP's. If I was looking at a mono they would have been on my list. The problem is there are better options all things considered and this is borne out by thier failing sales.
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