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Old 30-09-2009, 09:46   #16
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Originally Posted by NeilR View Post
Fascinating - which IP doesn't have a navstation? Certainly not the IP485 because it has one of the best navstations out there!

The OP wants to do a circumnavigation - unless he plans to go round the wrong way like the UK Challenge boats I'm not entirely convinced pointing ability is going to be high on his list.

Liveability, comfort, dependability would all be high on mine and there are many slower boats than IP's which have been round the world very successfully.
Neil,

This was a 42' IP as sold new around 2001/2002. The reasoning behind not having a navstation was that "you don't need it anymore with the modern plotters".

I never mentioned the lack of high pointing, you bring this up so it's obviously a sensitive issue for IP owners. IMO, it doesn't matter where you plan to sail, the boat should sail well at every wind angle, especially a $700k one. This has nothing to do with racing, it's the other way around: racers are built/optimized for conditions and wind angles expected during a race, cruisers should be all-round. It's amazing how often you need to go upwind while cruising, but this ability is more important when in trouble like clawing away from a lee shore in nasty weather etc.
I think IP's have enough pointing ability for cruising by the way. I also agree they are built well and have enough luxury for being a good liveaboard.

I just think they are slow. You say there are many slower boats so I challenge you to name some in that 48' range without coming up with backyard built ferro bricks! (production series boats) I am thinking but can't come up with a single one... oh yes, those pirate ship Taiwan clipper things so let's keep it to blue water cruisers without wooden masts & decks etc.

To be honest, I think that the IP designs make sense under 40'. But above 40' you can get more boat, with more comfort, more speed and the same reliability for the same or even less money.

It's quite normal that IP owners don't speak bad about their boats; I would be surprised and worried if they would. So, that is the reason that critical comments come from non-owners only.

I personally would buy a Bene First 47.7 before buying a 48' IP, even if the First might be a bit less quality.

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 30-09-2009, 10:25   #17
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I am glad there is a little balance to this thread. After lots of study into design and compromises in boats, I decided on another boat. I can't slight IP's on quality. I just want different things in my sailboat.
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Old 30-09-2009, 13:46   #18
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Well, if I had 700K, I would look at a Valiant 50, or a late model Little Harbor 46, planning to spend around 400K for the boat and another 150K to put it in perfect condition, including getting rid of the teak decks. Then I'd pocket the rest.

Here's another 49 ft centerboarder which I'm sure the folks at Hinckley would be happy to put in Bristol condition for a buyer.

1982 Williams Yard Falmouth Custom 49' Cutter--gorgeous Sail Boat For Sale -=

Once again, if you have 700K there are so, so many options, including multihulls for those that favor them.

I'm envious.
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Old 30-09-2009, 14:18   #19
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Hey Curmudgeon,

Is the galley stove in the boat ad you link us to in a bad spot or what? facing fore and aft would negate the gimble action while heeled.

Sorry to be off topic
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Old 30-09-2009, 14:38   #20
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Hey, this is cool, I'm not trying to wind everyone up honestly

Curmudgeon, I also wish I had $700k to spend but not alas while I remain a mortgaged homeowner with kids, so this is a bit theoretical for me too. The boats mentioned are all fine sturdy long haul cruisers and I agree with you you're spoilt for choice with a budget of this size - this should be enough to get you a secondhand Oyster as well if you're inclined that way. At the boat shows we also keep looking at multihulls because we know from a numbers point of view they make so much sense for cruising (and their owners love them too) but we just can't seem to get emotionally attached to them - which is also important in the choice of a boat and doesn't show up in any calculations!

Nick, I'm not sure which 42footer you mean but I'll take your word for it. The pointing comment was simply an allusion to several threads on this topic on a certain other forum (ahem!) I came across when I was also researching a boat. The vehemence with which this was raised in some cases really struck me at the time, I can't recall seeing such passion for other sailboats

I also had other constraints to consider at the time which drove me in the direction I went, for example I wanted to bring the boat back to the UK eventually so she had to be CE marked - this for me eliminated a very large number of secondhand US built boats. Not a constraint for a US national!! I also had a tight time window to do this adventure so needed a ready-to-go boat: spending 1 or 2 years bringing a 10 or 15 year old boat up to scratch was just not an option. Likewise a new production boat or semicustom boat would have been really lovely but a) cost too much and b) in most cases wouldn't be ready in time.

I mention this to reinforce my point that there are a huge number of factors to consider in choosing a boat for an extended cruise and they ain't all to do with technical points about sailing

Many IP's have been round the world and I personally know several in the 32-35ft range that have done a transatlantic. I like this, makes me confident in the build quality of the boat and its systems. When I mentioned slower boats I'm thinking of e.g. Vancouvers etc and a whole string of "classic" seaworthy boats which never claimed to be fast but which happily roam the oceans with contented owners.

Anyway I've said my piece and put my oar in the water on the "+" side based on personal experience, that's all I wanted to do. Haven't been here for a while and I'm pleased to see it's still as lively as I remember

Cheers

Neil
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Old 30-09-2009, 14:44   #21
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LOL I didn't notice that. Of course, if the gimbals were relocated 90 degrees it might work.

Oh well, maybe I'll cross that one off my list and replace it with one of those nice 50 ft. Hinckleys.
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Old 30-09-2009, 15:57   #22
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LOL I didn't notice that. Of course, if the gimbals were relocated 90 degrees it might work.

Oh well, maybe I'll cross that one off my list and replace it with one of those nice 50 ft. Hinckleys.
Speaking of which - there's a lovely SW-52 for sale now, under $600K. Sadly an estate situation. I was aboard with her late owner a couple of years ago. Absurdly well kept boat, and yes, she'll go upwind.
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Old 30-09-2009, 18:18   #23
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Is the Hinckley the yawl or the sloop?
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Old 30-09-2009, 22:01   #24
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A 50' Hinckley is about the last boat I would consider for living aboard. This is a boat to sail and race and keep in the marina the rest of the week while keeping her in top shape, like a thoroughbred horse. The maintenance cost alone would be a nightmare for me ;-)

cheers,
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Old 30-09-2009, 22:54   #25
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Gee, the accomodations look pretty nice to me, and maintaining any 50 ft boat is a chore.

The theoretical budget is 700K. So you could buy the Hinckley and do a fairly complete refit for that price. Equipment is equipment, and I don't see why maintaining the Hinckley thereafter would be that much more expensive than any 50 foot boat.

The Hinckley also saves you a 20% depreciation hit as against buying a brand new Island Packet (or any other new boat).

The real question is, do you want a Lincoln or a Mercedes?
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:46   #26
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I think that the Falmouth Cutter with the funky gimballing would be slightly more of a maintenance chore than the Hinckley

Maybe the stove arrangement is a hint that she has enormous lateral form stability but pitches fore and aft more than most?

Lovely boat, although I'd go for the Hinckley if t'wer me.
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Old 01-10-2009, 08:02   #27
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Is the Hinckley the yawl or the sloop?
Well, we're already off topic, so..
I was thinking the 1992 SW-52. Kevlar hull, cherry interior.

I'm not wild about the SW-50's. They're slow and, to my mind, tender, a Henry Hinckley redesign of 1960's Bill Tripp boat. PHRF NE base rating for the SW-50 is 114, almost as slow as an Island Packet. The SW-52 is a Mccurdy and Rhodes design, base PHRF 66, so she actually sails.

By comparison, base PHRF/NE of an Island Packet 45 is 126.

$700K budget? That would really open up a lot of options.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:25   #28
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Yes, it's the Hinckley sloop for sale in ME. Gorgeous boat.

There's also a 2002 Morris 46, asking 750K. That one also appears to be in sail away condition.

Those are two boats I would investigate before shelling out for a new IP. I also note that there are two IP 485s, a 2004 and a 2003, being offered for less than 600K.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:40   #29
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i agreee on not buying a new boat - I used to have a IP27 and have delived a IP 40 down the west coast. The boats are well built, the factory support is great and the owners are very loyal
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