Island packet 38 is this a good liveaboard/cruiser/coastal...bluewater sailboat?

[vjm]

There is a Holland, Michigan. That is what I assumed the OP means.

[Don C L]

Well, I'd echo Scout. Research good boats in really good shape that you can find at 10-15K, not for boats that are 35 feet long. You will probably have to give up a little on your desire for space. And it is a LOT cheaper and easier to sail and maintain a smaller boat!! I'd still say a Morgan Out Island may be one that will fit both bills. But I will say there was a man who found a Columbia Defender in decent shape on eBay for very, very cheap. Nobody really knew that boat or were looking for that kind of boat, and it is over 50 years old, and so it was given away. But I could see a person easily sailing away in that one for not too much money, it is a solid and sea-worthy design. I have seen Columbia 29s in beautiful shape for less than 15K. Older Morgans, Tartans, Pearson Tritons and Vanguards are fine boats that can be found in that range. And by all means look for one that has already been upgraded and maintained.

[wayne.b]

Originally Posted by CaptRican

Maybe you and i should visit together? I will show you! just make sure that you bring your good luck charm with you.

You are not safe in Puerto Rico unless you are in the tourist traps which are saturated with undercover and plain clothes police and uniformed police.

Read el Vocero and make sure that you have a rag under it to absorb the blood that drips from it.

Puerto Rico has been turned into trash! The culture destroyed.

let me know when you want to visit la Perla, or Lloren Torres..lol!

In some places i will give you 20 minutes max before you become a victim.

Want to bet? I'll bet you $10k cash that i will have to come save your arse after 30 min.

===

I'm sure you know more about Puerto Rico than I do but I've spent quite a bit of time cruising the west coast, south coast and east coast without ever feeling any danger. I've also driven around the southeast and northeast in rental cars, gone shopping, explored neighborhoods, etc. Everyone we've met anywhere in Puerto Rico was friendly and helpful. On the other hand I've stayed at high end hotels in San Juan where there seemed to be evidence of street crime and police activity. There are other places in the Carib where I've been far more cautious.

Based on the tone of your reply I'm a little concerned about whether you will truly be happy with a cruising lifestyle.

[sailing_gal]

I single handed my Island Packet 37 to the Bahamas and back up to Annapolis. I now have an Island Packet 420 and single-hand her. All the lines lead to the cockpit, and I have big winches, I can handle her solo just fine. Go for the 380 and get comfortable with her. It all depends on how you have her rigged. I actually find the 420 a little easier to gauge my distance to the dock when docking than the 37 for some reason. You will learn to get things done way ahead of time- like setting up fenders, etc. I am also quite particular on where I stop for fuel so I feel comfortable getting in and out. But, for cruising and anchoring- she's terrific. In light winds- just set the gennie and she will go just fine.

[Scout 30]

Here's a great boat for a beginner that's actually in your price range. These are good quality boats that are very big for their length & really simple to sail.

https://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/5303851937.html

[CaptRican]

Based on the tone of your reply I'm a little concerned about whether you will truly be happy with a cruising lifestyle.[/QUOTE]

Could you please explain the above statement? I do not understand where you are coming from?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Guy

No that is not true. Sailing a boat by yourself on the ocean is perhaps one of the most demanding things a human can do. Why else would those people be so weird? If you think it's easy you have not done enough of it.

I was talking about sailing the boat by yourself, which has nothing to with passages, which is as you say a whole nuther ball of wax


Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[CaptRican]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

CaptRican,

There are a couple of search functions at the Search button in the upper right of your screen. One is CF Search, but there is a drop down menu there, which is a Google Custom Search. The latter is the one that will get you to threads which compare boats.

Lizzy hit upon something really true. Right now, you seem to be in the throes of a dream, but have never sailed (and call yourself Capt.). Lizzy touched upon the notion that you don't even know whether you really enjoy sailing, or whether and to what extent you get seasick.

Someone wrote above, and there is great validity to this approach, that at the price range in which you are looking, a smaller, well found boat will suit your stated purposes better than a larger, less stoutly constructed, one.

You reside in Michigan and are going to sailing school in Holland? That'll cost a large chunk of your cruising kitty! so, maybe the budget is actually variable, or maybe you're pulling our collective legs.

Ann

Projecting is a very useful psychological tool to motivate yourself. I called myself Capt because i thought that it would be cool and i am going to be a Captain of my sailboat; and eventually i am going to get my captains license.

BTW how do i change the "senior cruiser" thingy? I have never cruise so that is not accurate.

As far as the sailing lessons yes they are expensive close to $2500 for 6 classes. asa 101 to asa 107 but i got a military discount which brought it down. I am debating whether to go to Florida and get the sailboat there and the lessons. Maybe i can get someone to give me sailing lessons if i buy their sailboat, is a thought.

I don't pull anyone's legs, that's not my mode of operandis, sorry, i don't have to be like that since i am not pretentious and i am certainly not a bull shitter.

I understand about the smaller sailboat being more prudent. But, i have heard the other side of the argument too. I believe that knowing me and my abilities that i will be able to handle a 35 footer on my own.

I know a few people who have cruised in the same sailboat for 30 years and livingaboard in a Pearson 323 and have done cruising, passaging and blue water all within that time in the same sailboat.

As far as me getting sea sick? I have never suffered from seasickness. When i was in Puerto Rico i used to work for the government and used to have to travel to another island 65nm away where i was doing research. I used to love it when it was hurricane season because the ocean would come alive.

I remember being allowed by the Captain to seat in the bow of that ferry and it was incredible the size of those waves and how the bow of that ferry would drop what appeared to be 10 stories and then go up again almost pointing straight up like a roller coaster. I don't get seasick i know that for sure.

But i do thank you for challenging me to think. But being Militarily groomed i approach everything with a can do spirit and i am a little hard head and cocky. Sometimes you have to be crazy, but not stupid, i am crazy and adventurous and have done some really crazy stuff in my life and have almost lost my life a few times.

But, again, i thank you for in the challenge there is always wisdom to wean from it.

[reed1v]

Island Packets are ok boats. Good for liveaboard but not really blue water sailors. They are more in the line of charter and rental boats. Rather ugly designs. You might find them rather uncomfortable at sea.

[CaptRican]

Originally Posted by wayne.b

===

I'm sure you know more about Puerto Rico than I do but I've spent quite a bit of time cruising the west coast, south coast and east coast without ever feeling any danger. I've also driven around the southeast and northeast in rental cars, gone shopping, explored neighborhoods, etc. Everyone we've met anywhere in Puerto Rico was friendly and helpful. On the other hand I've stayed at high end hotels in San Juan where there seemed to be evidence of street crime and police activity. There are other places in the Carib where I've been far more cautious.

Based on the tone of your reply I'm a little concerned about whether you will truly be happy with a cruising lifestyle.

San Juan is very safe, it is a tourist trap, away from the reality of life in the island. It is super saturated with law enforcement personnel and any criminal who touches a tourist can consider itself pretty much dead after they are done with him.

I hate criminals, i hate violence but i refused to be a victim, i will not bow to crime or thugs. Sorry if that is going to make me a bad cruiser.

[sailing_gal]

I would add- my 420 is my 3rd boat. I started learning about keel boats (I learned to sail on one designs) with a C&C 30, then started trading up. You have gotten some very good advice about learning many other topics while finding a boat. I took the 3 day diesel course at Mack Boring (which they don't offer any more since Larry Berlin retired), and I install most of my own electronics, do my own plumbing, etc. etc. When you are out at sea and it is only you and your boat, you had better know how to fix things! Also- you need to spend some time learning navigation and weather.

Personally, I feel more secure and relaxed out in the open ocean. When single handing I sail very conservatively--- never in a hurry. Take it slow and learn as much as you can- read, read, read.....

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by CaptRican

I understand about the smaller sailboat being more prudent. But, i have heard the other side of the argument too. I believe that knowing me and my abilities that i will be able to handle a 35 footer on my own.

You know your sailing abilities already? Then why take lessons at all? Sounds to me like you're ready to start cruising.

You do NOT know your abilities, sorry ... You need to at least get out there and actually sail -different boats under different conditions- before you can say that - and buy the right boat which is set up for solo sailing.

Do you know how to tell if a boat is set up for sailing solo? Can you tell when you look at the pics in those ads what you can do from the cockpit?
There's plenty of ads which state 'perfect for sailing solo' but they leave out the 'if you only use your genoa' part, for instance. Can you tell from the pics or when you're looking at a boat how easy or hard it is to reef the main?

What is your idea of sailing solo on an angry sea or ocean? How will you deal with seasickness (which you are likely to get on a sailboat), the cold, the lack of sleep etc.? Cos there's no pause button to hit, no one to hand you a coffee, no one to help you with even the smallest thing. And if you're so wet, cold, tired and sick you don't care you should reef - enjoy the knock-down, they're fun ...

Traveling to another island 65nm away does not compare to sailing in any way. Sorry

I've been re-reading what's been posted in some of your many threads, and all put together it is somewhat confusing and it looks to me -tho I could be wrong, that happens sometimes - like you're more or less running away from your current life as you're not really happy.

You've talked about how you hate 'dirt people', how society 'sucks' and how moving to the water where all the amazing boat people are will make you happy - you even dedicated a topic to your soul being whole again once you're living afloat.

You've never been sailing, you're 100% focused on what boat can do what you want (which, to be honest, is nothing any well built boat can't do) and because you don't know much about sail(ing) boats or the life afloat, you're bouncing all over the place looking for "the perfect boat" with no idea how to determine what would actually make a good boat.

You say your budget is 10-15K and you're looking at boats with asking prices around 15-20k - so you want to max out your budget to buy a few more feet - and then what?
How will you pay for the upgrades? Marina / slip / mooring costs? Insurance? Etc., etc.

I have seen you ask a lot about "the perfect boat", but nothing about the life afloat. Finding a boat is easy, adapting to a life afloat is a lot harder. It's not a magic world with unicorns and fluffy bunnies.
Life aboard can be tough and liveaboards come in all shapes and sizes, just like the 'dirt people' you said you didn't like (hate is a nasty word, imho).

How will you deal with a boat when everything breaks? And it will, no matter how great a boat you buy. How will you deal with not sleeping cos of the wind and the not so gently rocking boat? How much will you enjoy life on a boat when it's cold, mold takes over and you can't find that one damn leak that's turning your berth into some sort of Chinese water torture device?

Have you considered that many of the magic water people on boats are usually couples who are simply living their lives, and won't always be waiting to entertain a somewhat lonely single hander? Same for other single liveaboards, by the way. Or that your neighbors in the marina may not be nice folks at all?

You want to live life on the hook, which isn't an easy life on a small boat. Now, on the hard, getting up in the morning, taking a shower and brushing your teeth takes about 15 minutes. On the hook, it'll be an hour. You may think that doesn't matter cos there's no job to get to (?), but let me tell you: it gets old pretty damn quick. Esp on those days you are in a hurry, your dinghy's outboard won't start and all the showers are taken when you finally do get there. You go back to the boat to sort-of clean yourself up there ... but damn, you just ran out of water.

You have a very romantic idea about living on the water and sailing, and some early memories of being out on the water that you feel will become a reality again when you're on your boat. You might be up for a rude awakening, I'm afraid, if you won't keep both your feet on the ground.

You're getting some very good advice from people who are living the life and know exactly what they're talking about. You're telling them they're wrong, or at least that for some reason, it doesn't apply to you -- which is of course fine if that's how you feel, but in the long run it'll serve you much better to at least think about what some of them have told you. They're trying to help you make the best choices you can and get at least one of your feet back on the ground.

[wayne.b]

Originally Posted by CaptRican

Based on the tone of your reply I'm a little concerned about whether you will truly be happy with a cruising lifestyle.

Could you please explain the above statement? I do not understand where you are coming from? [/QUOTE]

===

If and when you cruise the Caribbean you will find a lot of places with iron bars on windows and the threat of crime if in the wrong place at the wrong time. I have not found Puerto Rico to be any worse than other places I've cruised.

[CaptRican]

Originally Posted by sailing_gal

I would add- my 420 is my 3rd boat. I started learning about keel boats (I learned to sail on one designs) with a C&C 30, then started trading up. You have gotten some very good advice about learning many other topics while finding a boat. I took the 3 day diesel course at Mack Boring (which they don't offer any more since Larry Berlin retired), and I install most of my own electronics, do my own plumbing, etc. etc. When you are out at sea and it is only you and your boat, you had better know how to fix things! Also- you need to spend some time learning navigation and weather.

Personally, I feel more secure and relaxed out in the open ocean. When single handing I sail very conservatively--- never in a hurry. Take it slow and learn as much as you can- read, read, read.....

I am happy to hear that, because i am a do it yourselfer too. I build three apartments from the ground up, including plumbing, electricity, framing, roofing, and finishing and HVAC.

I do not know yet about the electrical system in a boat but i am venturing to assume that it is like a car and a house combine. I will guess plumbing is the same. I can do anything with my hands and i am good building. I can also do welding. I also have done automotive body work and painting.

Thanks for the encouraging posts and i am going to immerse myself in everything sailboat.

[mariner36bob]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

What is your idea of sailing solo on an angry sea or ocean? How will you deal with seasickness (which you are likely to get on a sailboat), the cold, the lack of sleep etc.? Cos there's no pause button to hit, no one to hand you a coffee, no one to help you with even the smallest thing. And if you're so wet, cold, tired and sick you don't care you should reef - enjoy the knock-down

I have seen you ask a lot about "the perfect boat", but nothing about the life afloat. Finding a boat is easy, adapting to a life afloat is a lot harder. It's not a magic world with unicorns and fluffy bunnies.
Life aboard can be tough and liveaboards come in all shapes and sizes, just like the 'dirt people' you said you didn't like (hate is a nasty word, imho).

How will you deal with a boat when everything breaks? And it will, no matter how great a boat you buy. How will you deal with not sleeping cos of the wind and the not so gently rocking boat? How much will you enjoy life on a boat when it's cold, mold takes over and you can't find that one damn leak that's turning your berth into some sort of Chinese water torture device?

Have you considered that many of the magic water people on boats are usually couples who are simply living their lives, and won't always be waiting to entertain a somewhat lonely single hander? Same for other single liveaboards, by the way. Or that your neighbors in the marina may not be nice folks at all?

You want to live life on the hook, which isn't an easy life on a small boat. Now, on the hard, getting up in the morning, taking a shower and brushing your teeth takes about 15 minutes. On the hook, it'll be an hour. You may think that doesn't matter cos there's no job to get to (?), but let me tell you: it gets old pretty damn quick. Esp on those days you are in a hurry, your dinghy's outboard won't start and all the showers are taken when you finally do get there. You go back to the boat to sort-of clean yourself up there ... but damn, you just ran out of water.

You have a very romantic idea about living on the water and sailing, and some early memories of being out on the water that you feel will become a reality again when you're on your boat. You might be up for a rude awakening, I'm afraid, if you won't keep both your feet on .

Yuck.
I'm going to sell the boat and buy back my Harley....