Island Packet 35 - Right boat for Vancouver area?

[JoeRuncer]

Thanks ALL for the good advice, I have to agree with "TrentePieds" I have to find the boat that fits ME! I am guessing that buying an IP and getting to know her in Florida and the Bahamas is pretty appealing right now, and will be more so, come Feb. I will explore more options and keep the mind open.

[portsidecross]

Originally Posted by JoeRuncer

I looked at your refit - looks pretty darn beautiful! I think we should talk.

Would be happy to answer any questions you may have. Not sure how to private message you from this site but email me through the contact page at theultramarine.weebly.com and we'll go from there!

[weshoff]

Hello,
You might consider a Cape George Cutter, CGMW is located in Port Townsend and Todd & Crew is extremely helpful. These boats are super strong and built for the PNW with the tall rig.
Cheers, Wes

[robert sailor]

Your talking about my backyard although I've been away for awhile. You need a boat that can sail in light air and the IP is not a great choice. They do ok in the trade wind areas but even with a great sailing boat you end up motoring a lot in the PNW. There are lots of other choices you could make that would be a lot better in my opinion. I understand the concept of falling in love with a particular design as I've done it a few times myself but you really can do much better for this area than that particular boat. Good luck in which ever direction you go.

[Jim Cate]

FWIW: for a somewhat objective measure of the IP 35's sailing performance, a quick look at her PHRF rating is informative: 186 s/m by the New England PHRF site. That is a pretty dismal rating for a modern 35 foot yacht. Compare to Erickson 35-3 at 132, ora Catalina 36 at 138 (these are pretty conservative simple cruiser type production boats from a few years back) or various Beneteaus in the 35 foot range with ratings from <100 up to around 140, if you include more modern designs. Any of the other marques now sold will show similar sorts of performance... no need to list more.

The PHRF rating isn't perfect, but it does give a decent means of comparing sailing performance over a wide range of conditions, and the IP fares poorly when compared to most other vessels of her size. The reported performance of sailing downwind near hull speed in 25 knots does not indicate much, for just about any sailboat will do that. The more challenging conditions of going to windward or sailing in light airs is where comparisons should be made IMO.

Only you can determine if sailing performance is important in your intended usage. If it is, then perhaps the IP 35 ain't the best choice.

Jim

[CaptRory]

Island Packet sail to windward as well as and even better than any other full keel cutter. They are never going to point as well as a fin and blade, but if full keel is what you want, an IP is as good as any. You just have to know how to sail them. I'll add a lesson from an expert IP35 sailer at the end. The chain plate design is weird but also rock solid. They are welded together and glassed into the hull. Like everything else on an IP, they are very hard to break. The boat is a tank, you could drop it from a crane. The problem came from no drain hole in the installation. If the sailer failed to re- bed as necessary (eventually everybody does) salt water in an anaerobic environment eats the stainless. This is the case on all boat manufactured before around 97. Find a yard familiar with the issue, most good ones are. It cost me $6K to have mine replaced, so if you get an older boat figure it in. I have an IP32 and this little tutorial helped me get her up and running:----------- Sailing close hauled is one of my favorite points of sail, because I come from 8 yrs of dinghy racing, then 10 yrs of J-35 racing, so I love to sail upwind. I will say, getting a Packet to sail upwind is NO EASY TASK! Here are the keys I have learned.
1. No cutter, it is pointless upwind unless used to steady the boat in high winds say 20-30 off the bow motoring. It will not help you sail upwind.
2. Jib car position is KEY. Basically, forward for reaching and aft for beating, then adjust as needed to power the head of the jib. If the top is liffing, then move the car forward a little.
3. Main sheet tension...TIGHT as TIGHT can be and not above centerline. No need for vang upwind as the sheet will do all the work.
4. Jib sheeted to one to spreader tip, this is the limiting factor on how tight you can sheet the jib. For me, with 135% I sheet it to 1-6 inches off the spreader tip, upwind and with my jib car all the way aft.
5. Tell Tales on the aft edge of the main, 3-4 of them up the leech. This will show you if the main still has attached air flow on the BACK SIDE of the main as the air flows off the sail. If these tells are not streaming aft, then the main is over sheeted, or traveled up too high. The main sheet tension is key to sailing upwind and these tells show you if the main is flowing with the air that is being driven into the slot by the jib.
6. If you see the jib top aft, leech luffing, when sheeted in fully then your car is in the wrong position or you are too high. Keep working this car position until the jib leech breaks evenly top to bottom, this is key.

Now, set sail on the autopilot to wind vane mode and let the boat stay in the groove. We can set this to 40 degrees in normal winds, 10-20 knots true, and up to 37 degrees with winds 25-27 knots true close hauled.

Reef the main foirst, keep the jib full as long as you can. We can sail close hauled up to 27 knots true wind speed with a reefed main. Once we see 30 knots close hauled true winds, we need to reef the jib down to 110%. Still close hauled we can sail this up to 35 knots true wind. Over 35 knots we reach off to 120 degrees wind angle and furl the jib downwind when the boat is doing 8 knots. Then we turn back upwind on the reefed main, roll out the cutter and with a cutter, and reefed main, we can keep sailing 35 knots upwind. It is not comfortable, and if at night, we will drop the main and motor the cutter into the wind with the vane set to 20-25 degrees. This is exactly what we just did offshore from Atlantic City, NJ to Block Island in 35 knot winds from 2100hrs to 0300hrs all night long!

So, sailing upwind is great, I am always amazed at how well an IP will sail upwind when set up right.

[a64pilot]

My Avatar was taken from a Lagoon 380, while I wont say we were racing we were both sailing back and forth in the bay and he turned just as I went past and started coming after me. We were friends, so it was a friendly thing. Long story short I'm no sailor really, very inexperienced, but we were walking away from the Lagoon on the upwind leg and holding our own on the downwind leg, though he may have been gaining some on the downwind, so while an IP may not go to windward well, they do so much better than a Lagoon 380 for whatever that is worth, but fast? That's not why I bought the boat. She is no sports car, in a tight marina, I marvel at how some of those fin keel spade rudder boats turn.

My boat comes into her own about the time when others are reefing, light winds, I crank the Diesel, maybe she would do well with someone who knows what they are doing and maybe with some lightweight sails, but I just concede that no boat does everything well, and one thing mine does poorly is sail in light winds.
Joke about an IP is that they are a comfortable, easy boat to sail, which is good cause it's going to take awhile to get there.
But if I wanted to go fast, I wouldn't be in what I think is the slowest transportation machine ever made by man, a sailboat. But I do want to travel in comfort and be well rested when we finally do get there.

Oh, and a 135 Genoa helps quite a lot, makes me wonder why they didn't come with the bigger Genoa to start with?




Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by Lowcountry

This is untrue. I owned and sailed/cruised an IP35 for six years. It sails very well off the wind and is a fantastic boat for broad or deep reaching, in particular with 18-20kts of wind. Her hull speed is near 8kts, and in the right conditions she will flirt with it. She will not go to windward well at all, and her chainplate design and construction is garbage. Mine dismasted while close-reached in 25kts of wind due to crevice corrosion in fwd starboard chainplate. They're glassed to the hull's interior and can only be inspected by xray or by cutting out liners and cabinetry and then cutting the plates themselves out of the fiberglass. Get a Pacific Seacraft or a Cabo Rico.

You say my post is untrue---then validate it with your experience which includes a dismasting!!!!

[Lowcountry]

Originally Posted by geoleo

You say my post is untrue---then validate it with your experience which includes a dismasting!!!!

I was disputing your claim that the 35 is the worst sailing model of IP, and that it is slow and doggy to sail. It's neither. It doesn't go to windward well, and it doesn't do well in light airs. It's good when it's reaching. And dismasting has nothing to do with a boat's ability to sail well or not, but it is an indicator of imperfect design/build.

[Eder]

Dismasting is due to negligent maintenance imo.

[Sulaire]

I like the ip yachts, seem solid enough, one observation from watching them on anchorage from our boat... they roll as bad as the amels! The 35 seems to be particularly prone to rolling.

An important consideration for long term comfort...

[CaptRory]

I don't know where you are going with the comment about rolling. I certainly don't roll any more that any other and probably less, it is after all a moderately heavy full keel boat! And your expertise comes from watching from afar, yet you pick out the 35 as the most prone? Give me a break. But let me add something about anchoring. They also don't sail at anchor. You can carry heavy tackle that lets you sleep at night in squally conditions. When compared to boats of similar size they are far roomier, twice the storage, and stretch out comfort fore and aft. Not a concern in the NW perhaps, they are very well ventilated. Five opening ports per side (35 may have 6) plus one or two in the cavernous quarter birth, 5 overheads on the 32. I have never understood the fixed window mentality of many popular designs...I need a cross wind, especially in the marina. Someone else mentioned maneuvering in a tight marina. That is probably the biggest down side for me. But that too just takes a little training and practice. Now...they are pricey. They are, but that's because they are popular and that is for good reason. As you say, there are none for sale on the west coast, and if one pops up, it won't last long. Florida is probably the best place to find a number of them. Whitaker Marine specializes, having been their largest factory rep. If you need to have one delivered, Blain Parks is your man....Parks Marine Services. He know's all of them, better than anybody. Feel free to go to his web site and message him with any specific questions about IP's, he is a great guy that loves to help people with their boats. He teaches a lot of people to get in and out of their slip without fear. He used to deliver for the factory and he a long haul sailor. He can also teach you to sail all points of wind on your own boat, including upwind...during the delivery if you like. You will never regret purchasing an IP35, beyond the universal sailor's lament ....."Sheesh, why did I buy a BOAT...what was I thinking!"

[Sulaire]

We like the ip yachts and always look out for them, so we pay attention when we see one and the 35 rolls more than others. Maybe they are shoal draft versions we have seen

No expertise, just living on board 365 and admiring other yachts.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by Lowcountry

I was disputing your claim that the 35 is the worst sailing model of IP, and that it is slow and doggy to sail. It's neither. It doesn't go to windward well, and it doesn't do well in light airs. It's good when it's reaching. And dismasting has nothing to do with a boat's ability to sail well or not, but it is an indicator of imperfect design/build.

OK tell me another IP model that sails worse!

[a64pilot]

I bought my IP as a learning boat, I had never sailed before and wanted to a great extent to buy a quality boat, that I could resell without having to take too much of a beating if I found out that I just couldn't live life at 5 or 6 kts.
I never intended it to be "the" boat we would cruise in, but she has grown on us and we have decided to outfit her for cruising as opposed to buying a newer, possibly larger boat like what we originally intended.
I cut and pasted this from one one the reviews, and have found it to be true, it's of a 38, but the same for all IP's.

"INVESTMENT AND RESALE: The 38 holds its value and can even sell for more than its original price when new. A cultlike following ensures the resale value remains high."