Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-07-2016, 00:04   #31
Senior Cruiser
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Mediterranean
Boat: Oyster 53 Cutter
Posts: 6,507
Re: Is this the diamond in the rough?

By my prior remarks, I Don't mean for them to be derogatory towards the Formosa. I just think you're taking on the wrong project.

You'll be in way over your head in no time. Underwater.
__________________

__________________
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2016, 08:15   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Phoenix/Puerto Penasco
Boat: Between boats--currently shopping
Posts: 67
Re: Is this the diamond in the rough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
By my prior remarks, I Don't mean for them to be derogatory towards the Formosa. I just think you're taking on the wrong project.

You'll be in way over your head in no time. Underwater.
I appreciate your comments sir--and yes, that seems to be the general consensus here--too much risk in this particular project.
__________________

__________________
AZ Parothead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2016, 08:20   #33
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Phoenix/Puerto Penasco
Boat: Between boats--currently shopping
Posts: 67
Re: Is this the diamond in the rough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
"2. Invest some personal passion and energy into something. I just got my pilot's license in November and though I love to fly (and sail) planes are even more jealous mistresses than boats. Basically I need a project..."


Airplanes are an order of magnitude more expensive and time consuming.

A good friend who owned a Cape Dory 30 made a lot of money and had some free time due to his success at work. His boat was just a 1/2 mile from his house. He said "I have time, I have money, I have a pilot's license, so why don't I buy a Cessna 172?"

The airfield was only five minutes from the house and the boat.

Two years later he sold the plane with the comment
"No One has the time to maintain/sail a boat and own/fly an airplane"

This was from a married man with no children whose wife made even more money than did he. She enjoyed the boat and plane as much as my friend.

A 2nd friend here in our marina is a retired PanAm/Delta airline captain with 30+years. He buys and sells newer 36 - 39 foot Beneteaus every other year and lives on them about half the year. Two years ago he decided to BUILD an airplane at his home in Phoenix. He has built three previous planes. He thought he had time to sail and build airplanes. Late last year he sold his Beneteau 375 because he didn't have enough time for boats and planes and the more he worked on the plane, the further away was the completion date.

He is 78 years old and wants to fly it before his completion date. Tough Guy - Late last year he completed the Tour de Tuscon 76-mile bicycle ride.

But, the boat bug is an incurable disease and last weekend he was back over here trying to buy a new 35' Beneteau. He figures a new smaller boat would take less time (just kidding!) - He misses the boat during the Phoenix summers.
Ha yes, I looked into buying an older 182 (much more versatile airplane) and just couldn't see the cost/value proposition. You need to fly 100 hrs a year to MAYBE break even and although I do fly that much there is so much more involved.

I am definitely a "do it before you die" kind of guy but a boat AND a plane. My wife would kill me.
__________________
AZ Parothead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2016, 08:23   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Phoenix/Puerto Penasco
Boat: Between boats--currently shopping
Posts: 67
Re: Is this the diamond in the rough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
I wouldn't quibble much with Tacoma's numbers, except that the pictures I saw of the deck from below indicate that it isn't just the team that needs to be replaced, there is no core left in the deck. So at most you have two skins holding the entire deck of the boat together. If this is the case, add in a core replace,net job on a 46' boat. That by itself is a massive job.

Assuming the $50k number is correct for everything else, by the time you record the deck.... I just don't see it. You will have as much into this boat as buying another one on the market, that takes a year to complete, and that's assuming nothing else comes to light.

Add a couple of rotten bulkheads, or a rotten stringer, and all bets are off.

Like I said, I could see taking the boat for free, and really tearing it apart for a better estimate of what it would take to fix. But I would have the cash in the bank to drop her off at the dump, and prepared to do so if I found any major currently unaccounted for faults.

The scrap lead in the keel brings you back to neutral on the junking costs, and you might be able to make a buck on the other hardware (engine, transmission, winches, mast, etc).

It's sad to say, but I figure at best a 50/50 chance of this boat ever returning to service economically. Not to say someone won't loose a mint trying to do it.
Yes, i think it probably would require a core replacement. I went back and pulled up some loose boards and the glass underneath was spongy in several spots. And the cabin top is in rough shape. This mornings thoughts are 70/30 NO.....
__________________
AZ Parothead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2016, 08:34   #35
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Phoenix/Puerto Penasco
Boat: Between boats--currently shopping
Posts: 67
Re: Is this the diamond in the rough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
The used sails you've priced in will be almost totally useless.
Not sure I agree here--they push the boat--isn't that the purpose of a sail? I read fatty goodlander's book on refitting an old boat and he recommended used sails over new ones....
__________________
AZ Parothead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2016, 09:42   #36
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Ft Lauderdale
Boat: KP 46
Posts: 238
Images: 2
Re: Is this the diamond in the rough?

Thread drift a bit here... although I do own the vessel the Formosa 46 was copied from..and she is a great boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
[I]"
"No One has the time to maintain/sail a boat and own/fly an airplane"

This was from a married man with no children whose wife made even more money than did he.
I totally disagree with you on that... I own a plane (I built her, an aerobatic bush plane), and a small sailboat. a kelly Peterson 46. and I find time to maintain/sail a boat and own/fly an airplane. and....My wife is an airline pilot...

I sail for a living so I can fly for fun. (but I do love to sail...)

Michael
__________________
captmikem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2016, 09:52   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Phoenix/Puerto Penasco
Boat: Between boats--currently shopping
Posts: 67
Re: Is this the diamond in the rough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by captmikem View Post
Thread drift a bit here... although I do own the vessel the Formosa 46 was copied from..and she is a great boat.



I totally disagree with you on that... I own a plane (I built her, an aerobatic bush plane), and a small sailboat. a kelly Peterson 46. and I find time to maintain/sail a boat and own/fly an airplane. and....My wife is an airline pilot...

I sail for a living so I can fly for fun. (but I do love to sail...)

Michael
I do love to fly--but I also love hobbies that can be shared. Flying is pricey but once it gets in your blood.....I grew up in the airline business and caught the bug early on.
__________________
AZ Parothead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2016, 09:55   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,101
Re: Is this the diamond in the rough?

Is this for real. With Formosa boats' checkered past, you will be probably spending the rest of your life fixing it up.
__________________
reed1v is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2016, 10:01   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Phoenix/Puerto Penasco
Boat: Between boats--currently shopping
Posts: 67
Re: Is this the diamond in the rough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
Is this for real. With Formosa boats' checkered past, you will be probably spending the rest of your life fixing it up.
Well, the boat is for real. Looking for and more like a fool's errand though.
__________________
AZ Parothead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2016, 11:11   #40
Senior Cruiser
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Mediterranean
Boat: Oyster 53 Cutter
Posts: 6,507
Re: Is this the diamond in the rough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ Parothead View Post
Not sure I agree here--they push the boat--isn't that the purpose of a sail? I read fatty goodlander's book on refitting an old boat and he recommended used sails over new ones....
Completely wrong, sails pull the boat forward via an airfoil like an airplane wing. So unless you only plan on sailing directly downwind, used sails will be nearly useless bashing upwind.

I know... We just replaced a used mainsail which was nearly useless.

Would you like to buy it?
__________________
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2016, 11:25   #41
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 18,140
Re: Is this the diamond in the rough?

If you want to go sailing... run away from that boat. If you want to languish in rotten wood and other projects that will cost and take 3 x the time you think, go for it.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2016, 12:10   #42
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,101
Re: Is this the diamond in the rough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Completely wrong, sails pull the boat forward via an airfoil like an airplane wing. So unless you only plan on sailing directly downwind, used sails will be nearly useless bashing upwind.

I know... We just replaced a used mainsail which was nearly useless.

Would you like to buy it?
Not completely. Old sails can be recut to take the bags out of them. Plus on most modern boats, the main does not do that much for speed as compared to a jib or spinnaker. We recut ours quite a few times till we made it into a mizzen sail. Of course that is with heavy Dacron where the fabric is thick to begin with.
__________________
reed1v is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2016, 12:38   #43
Senior Cruiser
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Mediterranean
Boat: Oyster 53 Cutter
Posts: 6,507
Re: Is this the diamond in the rough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
Not completely. Old sails can be recut to take the bags out of them. Plus on most modern boats, the main does not do that much for speed as compared to a jib or spinnaker. We recut ours quite a few times till we made it into a mizzen sail. Of course that is with heavy Dacron where the fabric is thick to begin with.
By most people's standards, ours was not that bad. But the performance was terrible compared to a new sail. The local sailmaker inspected the main and declared any money spent trying to re-cut the sail would be money wasted. Just like fixing leaks in a twenty year old inflatable dinghy.

But hey..... It's your money, waste it however you like. By the time you add up the money wasted on recuts, you could have bought and enjoyed a new sail.

Would you like to buy our 8 year old main with average miles on it?
__________________
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2016, 13:06   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,101
Re: Is this the diamond in the rough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
By most people's standards, ours was not that bad. But the performance was terrible compared to a new sail. The local sailmaker inspected the main and declared any money spent trying to re-cut the sail would be money wasted. Just like fixing leaks in a twenty year old inflatable dinghy.

But hey..... It's your money, waste it however you like. By the time you add up the money wasted on recuts, you could have bought and enjoyed a new sail.

Would you like to buy our 8 year old main with average miles on it?
We recut and stitched our sails by ourselves. One tends to do that when living as long distant cruisers. The only "money" involved was the sewing threads, some wax, and several broken needles. About $3. But, hey, if you want to just buy new sails every time your old ones seem a bit baggy, go for it.
__________________
reed1v is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2016, 13:15   #45
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,252
Re: Is this the diamond in the rough?

There is no one better than a sail maker that is going to make thousands of dollars off of you, to tell you that you need a new sail???? Almost every used boat ever bought has come with used sails, therefore the implication seems to be that they should all be thrown out and have new sails made???? Yes, there are some trashed sails for sale, but there are many from reputable re-sellers that are fine at much less than new prices. Many of us would like all new sails, but the people that recommend that it is necessary are not writing the checks for them. The dollar estimates thrown around in this thread seem pretty wild. Maybe a 100K$ to out fit after the boat is up to basics??? I understand that there are people that are afraid to go beyond the breakwater without 60K$ worth of electronics, but probably 55K$ of that is not really needed, unless someone has told you, Oh you cant do without some new gadget. It sure is easy to spend other peoples money on the internet. Just a mild rant. ____Grant.
__________________

__________________
gjordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
26' Diamond Catamaran, 1980 Rory Livingston Multihull Sailboats 3 18-09-2007 22:39


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:13.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.