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Old 13-03-2016, 08:30   #61
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeAndMichelle View Post

The owner neglected it a bit.
  • It needs a new headsail (current one is very mildewy); Mainsail seems fine.
  • V-berth has some leaks from the bowspirit that needs to be recaulked (view photo below).
  • Needs a couple new electronics; needs navigation lights (didn't see any)
  • Needs all new safety equipment (fire extinguisher, flares, radar reflector, etc.)
  • Needs new deck painting.
  • Needs new bottom cleaning and painting.
(...)
Given the price and the boat, I would not buy. I like sailing, not fixing up. 14k is a bit of money where I live. It buys a nice clean boat here.

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Old 13-03-2016, 08:38   #62
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

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Originally Posted by MikeAndMichelle View Post
I've never done that before. Wouldn't it take some time for me to learn the difference in sounds? Or will I be able to instantly tell while I'm tapping away?
I copied this from...

Marine Survey 101, Do your own marine survey

PERCUSSIVE SOUNDING - otherwise known as tapping with a hammer., note I said "tap", there is no need to be heavy handed. This is a simple process of noting the difference in sounds as you tap. A hollow sound may indicate delamination or core separation. A dull sound suggests high moisture content and a very dull sound suggests rotten core material. Anyone with a decent ear should be able to determine all but the most subtle conditions. A sound structure will produce a clean "click" with very little bounce back of the hammer. Delamination or core separation will give more bounce back (like a drum) and saturated core will produce a dull thud with near zero bounce back.

I use a variety of hammers and prefer my brass head but do use the Nylon head too. you can buy the little ones shown at right at Princess Auto. This is a process you will use on every part of the structure and is critical on balsa cored hulls, I/O transoms and engine stringers. On decks tap around every fastener and fitting, paying particular attention to areas of hairline fracture in the gelcoat.

Be aware that tapping on an area of the hull where a bulkhead is attached inside will produce a very hard click and that areas between interior frames will produce a very slightly duller sound. You probably will not find the more subtle differences but you can find the costly issues quite easily.
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Old 13-03-2016, 09:09   #63
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

"$5K even with new rigging and newer engine? Aren’t new engines like $7000 or something? He has a receipt from Pro-Tech for like $4000 for the new rigging, too."

Yes, Michael/Michelle - even with a new engine and four grand's worth of rigging :-)! What determines an owner's motivation to sell is NOT the money he has sunk into the vessel in former years of folly, but his present willingness to bear the ongoing, heavy burden of moorage, upkeep and non-monetary aggravation that is an intrinsic part of boat ownership.

I know the guys at ProTech. Forty years ago we were all buddies on Vancouver's (yachting) waterfront. I am sitting here with a recent invoice from ProTech in my hand. For 5/16" Stainless Steel left handed hex nuts. $2.28 EACH! PLUS the 12% for her Britannic Majesty in Right of Canada and in Right of British Columbia. Screwed on DIY price = $2.56 a whack! Trust me - four grand doesn't go ANYWHERE when you are talking rigging!

And you are absolutely right about engines. A brand new Beta 20 with transmission, all still "in the box", is $7K + 12% = $7,840 (appr.). Add $5K for the re'n're unless you can do it yourself. Which few boat owners know how to do. Or are willing to do. If you CAN do it yourself, you can reduce the re'n're cost to $2K

For many reasons the Beta is FAR, FAR superior to the Volvo you might find in the Rawson. Even to the other possibility, which is a Yanmar. If, like TrentePieds, the Rawson has a Vetus, then - hm... Before I found alternative sources for parts for that machine, I paid twennyeightbux for the little paper gasket under the thermostat dome!

It's that kinda thing that eventually causes an owner - like TrentePied's previous owner - to go: "I'm tired of this. Let's just dump the bugger!" and brings the eventual settlement price down to something that is TOTALLY unrelated to the bux sunk into the boat over the period of ownership. In TrentePied's case it was over twennyfive grand for new rigging. The work was done by ProTech! And that was only part of what the PO spent in ways that in no wise make TrentePieds a better cruising boat than she had been before. The PO was clearly EXTREMELY weak on the fundamental concepts :-)!

This is getting long. But I've lots more to tell you. Like about the availability and cost of moorage in and around Vancouver. And about the uselessness of even THINKING about up-river marinas as a base for a sailboat that's actually being sailed. Or up-harbour marinas like those at the inner end of Burrard Inlet. All that will have to wait for further e-mails.

Cheers

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Old 13-03-2016, 09:14   #64
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

I've followed this thread some now and made a few suggestions and glad you didn't get that Rawson. I had a Rawson Pilothouse 30. The hulls are strong but there are a few shortcuts in other areas. The ballast is exposed concrete. Why else would you do that unless it was to save money. The rudder attachment on mine was 304 stainless. Yes, it was half gone by the time I bought it. My decks were delaming on the foredeck. I could go on. But if the builder took short cuts at all...what does that say about him and the boat?
Have you received input but by former Rawson owners? No...just folks who think they're ok from seeing one. I'll go out on the limb here and say you might have boat fever. We all get it from time t time. We only hear what we want to hear. I know it's hard to wait until the right boat comes along. In the meantime, save your money and maybe buy a $750 car. Seattle is less than 3 hours away. You and your girl could make a nice vacation out of it.
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Old 13-03-2016, 09:43   #65
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
and glad you didn't get that Rawson.
They're still in the process of buying, the owner refused their $8k offer (...) but they did post about taking the boat for a sea trial and making a new offer tomorrow, this time including the 'depending on survey' thingy.

It seems this is the only boat that the OP deems seaworthy within a short distance from their home, so my guess is they'll end up buying her.
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Old 13-03-2016, 09:46   #66
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

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They're still in the process of buying, the owner refused their $8k offer (...) but they did post about taking the boat for a sea trial and making a new offer, this time including the 'depending on survey' thingy.
Sorry lizzy...missed that. To the OP...maybe this will convince you, there are better deals out there...

Cascade 42
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Old 13-03-2016, 09:52   #67
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
missed that.
I'm still stuck on the boat and have too much time on my hands - which is the only reason I saw it, haha! It's in this post.
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Old 13-03-2016, 09:54   #68
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

Been following this thread and it is pretty interesting, To me it seems the OP is pretty much set.

But I just took a look on KIJI and it did not take long to find a few boats that might be in better shape for less money.

like a this Cal 29.

Cal 29 | sailboats | Victoria | Kijiji

you may have to travel a bit to find the perfect boat.

good luck in your search.
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Old 13-03-2016, 10:43   #69
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

I google'd for less then 10 mins and found some nice boats near Vancouver that I'd much, much prefer over the Rawson, which I also saw listed (for $14,900 - almost $15k!).

I was wondering how "new engine" and "neglected boat" added up - the engine was replaced in 2007. That's 8, 9 years ago ... Has the engine been well maintained? I kinda doubt it, as the boat hasn't seen much -if any- care over the last years ...
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Old 13-03-2016, 11:03   #70
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

think this post onanother thread

6 month sabbatical cruising costs

should be required reading from Michael and Michelle!

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Old 13-03-2016, 11:04   #71
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
I've followed this thread some now and made a few suggestions and glad you didn't get that Rawson. I had a Rawson Pilothouse 30. The hulls are strong but there are a few shortcuts in other areas. The ballast is exposed concrete. Why else would you do that unless it was to save money. The rudder attachment on mine was 304 stainless. Yes, it was half gone by the time I bought it. My decks were delaming on the foredeck. I could go on. But if the builder took short cuts at all...what does that say about him and the boat?
Have you received input but by former Rawson owners? No...just folks who think they're ok from seeing one. I'll go out on the limb here and say you might have boat fever. We all get it from time t time. We only hear what we want to hear. I know it's hard to wait until the right boat comes along. In the meantime, save your money and maybe buy a $750 car. Seattle is less than 3 hours away. You and your girl could make a nice vacation out of it.
They did get input from me and at least one other former owner... ! I don't know... it's all about the particular boat, new engine and rigging? The pics looked pretty good. Might be a great budget boat for a cruise. You can buy an old spade rudder, bolt on keel Ericson, cal, catalina etc with an atomic 4... maybe... then what do you have? Keel bolt issues, waterlogged exposed rudder, , engine issues....I seriously doubt there are many old boats out there with anything but 304 rudder shafts.
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Old 13-03-2016, 12:00   #72
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

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They did get input from me and at least one other former owner... ! I don't know... it's all about the particular boat, new engine and rigging? The pics looked pretty good. Might be a great budget boat for a cruise. You can buy an old spade rudder, bolt on keel Ericson, cal, catalina etc with an atomic 4... maybe... then what do you have? Keel bolt issues, waterlogged exposed rudder, , engine issues....I seriously doubt there are many old boats out there with anything but 304 rudder shafts.
Actually it was the lower rudder attachment (lower gudgeon) that was 304ss, not the shaft. I'm a toolmaker/Machinist, so I know the difference in the way 304 and 316 corrodes. I also think you are incorrect on rudder shafts being 304. They usually are 316. But I would not doubt that Ron Rawson cut corners there also.
The Rawson 30 he shows in the picture does show evidence of water intrusion under the foredeck. Mine had that too and what a mess with the foam core. I had to eventually tear the upper skin off and re-core. Depending on the year it could also be ply or balsa.
I'm in total agreement that southern Ca. production boats with their spade rudders, non-opening ports and oilcan hulls are not the way to go. But if the OP wants a stout boat, why not save the extra few bucks and by a Westsail 32? In fair shape, they can be had as low as $15K and $25K for one in pretty good shape. I mean the OP seem pretty convinced that a full keeler is the way to go. Other than that a Yankee 30 would be an excellent choice for his price range. The Cascade I posted a few back was a great choice. But the OP has to stop looking for the easy, closer way and do a little more foot work. It's easy to tell him to grab something because we're not the ones that live with the consequences. Again...a little more patience and perseverance.
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Old 13-03-2016, 12:45   #73
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

Yeah, I like the Yankee 30 too. Great sailor. Hard to find a good one I imagine. There aren't many old boats without deck core issues. Nobody talked about 316 back in the 70's, that's the only reason I doubt you will find many with that. Maybe so, just guessing. It's only marginally better than 304. Just as likely to find monel in tanks and shafts possibly on higher end boats I suppose.
Yeah, as I said earlier post, Rawson built commercial fishing boats. The sailboats became a sideline for a while.
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Old 13-03-2016, 12:50   #74
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

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Offshore-capable boats in our price range are so rare around here that we might as well go after it and try.
I don't know much about the PNW sailboat markets, but I believe in this kind of a central location there are also other good boats for sale. If this boat has some potentially expensive repairs waiting, it might be good to check also some other good offers. Concerning the expensive parts, I understood that the motor is ok, and that it is possible that the deck has some problems, but that you need to buy a new sail. Count those in in your price calculations. Unless you really want to spend your time and money working with the boat, it can be easier to spend some time hunting for the best deal. But you know better, so don't put too much weight on my fearful comments .
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Old 13-03-2016, 13:04   #75
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

When I think back on it, the only time I've sailed a rig overboard was in a Rawson 30. The basic version. Ca. 1977 this was, so the hull musta been fairly new-ish. When I did my pre-departure check prior to taking a croose'n'learn crew aboard, the hull vibrated so much when I flashed 'er up that the compass card was doing a jig. The bottle screw on the forestay was taken up all the way, yet the stays were slack and the truck was competing with the compass card.

I reported to the Old Man that the boat wasn't up to the job. "We don't have any others", he said. "You needn't take the job, but if you don't - don't come back!". Being the good, obedient little lad I've always been, I came to attention, said "Aye - aye, Sir!", took the boat and got on with it.

As for how and why the rig went over the side - perhaps some other time ;-)!

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