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Old 07-03-2016, 11:28   #16
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

As a prospective used-sailboat buyer you have a *lot* of options. Once you buy that boat you basically have one -- fix it. Be very, very, very picky about the boat you buy!

Condition, condition, condition -- especially hull, deck, and engine. Sails and rigging are not cheap -- except in comparison or the cost of a hull and an engine and they are easier to replace. A newer, hopefully in good condition engine, is a good thing. Deck leaks on that scale or not! The age and bagginess of the sails is more important than the mildew, which may well be cleanable.
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Old 07-03-2016, 11:33   #17
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

Rawson 30's are a dime a dozen. No soft spots on the deck with a leaky bow sprit?...I doubt it. I had a 77 R-30 pilothouse. It was a foam core deck badly delamed. What a freakin nightmare, Yes, I actually work on my boats. You can get one for less that $12,000 in great condition.
Here an excerpt from my blog on good, cheap boats.
Scroll about half way down to see ...
What you really need to go cruising Or Is this love or boat envy

It's still a buyers market and you have a lot of choices.
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Old 07-03-2016, 11:35   #18
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

I agree with "Don't do it!" and offer them $2,000.00 because the repairs will be much more than you can possibly imagine in time and money and lost sailing time. You'll turn into a resident of the boatyard instead of a sailor.
I'm learning the lesson the hard way, as we speak.
There are a lot of boats in really good condition that the owner lavished time and money on that will go for a very good price if you keep looking and don't get emotionally involved before you negotiate.
And the most important clue here is the owner went cheap on maintenance. It's often a death knell for boats because the neglect is cumulative and everything effects everything; a leaking bowsprit means your cabinets are rotting which means your fasteners are rusting which means.....
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Old 07-03-2016, 11:44   #19
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

If your budget is 14k, keep looking.
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Old 07-03-2016, 11:50   #20
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

Guys ... it looks like everyone is about money... we look more like wall street\city crow then boater a boat is primary FUN and fun is not really measured with dollar signs...

if you like the boat go for it - if not go for another...

$1000 for a boat that is worth $10 000 but you do not love can bring you depression ... $100 000 for boat worth $10 000 can make you the happiest person on earth if you love it - judge with your heart... there is no point counting the expenses they will be always A LOT more then you expect - thats why the love for the boat is the important part
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Old 07-03-2016, 11:57   #21
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

Add $8k engine + $4k electronics + $2K sails makes this a 1k boat
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Old 07-03-2016, 12:00   #22
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

Sorry - the new engine & rigging lines were not on my screen - please ignore my post
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Old 07-03-2016, 13:05   #23
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vtomanov View Post
$100 000 for boat worth $10 000 can make you the happiest person on earth
I understand what you're saying and agree with it - up to a point.

We all know that unfortunate person who bought a boat s/he loved, and it turned out to be a money pit. Money runs out, dreams are destroyed.

Spending $100k on a $10k boat will only make you happy if you knew that upfront, have the extra $90k in the bank - and have enough money not to care about the $95k you'll never see again.

Most people have to keep an eye on their budget. That's just the way it is, but we all make it work
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Old 07-03-2016, 13:35   #24
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

I bought my first boat when I was 16 (about 25 yrs ago ...). I figured my father would do all the work and find me a boat. He kind of did ... but he dragged me along to look at boats for days and days. It was 'just' a Sailhorse I was after, but he made sure I'd buy a good one and learned & understood why some weren't worth the visit and others were overpriced etc. etc.

Lizzy,you have the father I always wanted! Mine did not know the difference between the front and the back of any boat and would throw up as soon as he spotted a bucket with water.
Wees zuinig op de jouwe!!
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Old 07-03-2016, 13:38   #25
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

I agree with everything that has been said. I even agree with the guy who stated paying 100k for a 10k boat is OK if you got a boat you love. I just did a quick check and there are several cheaper and in better condition Rawson 30s out there for sale. Is your heart set on a Rawson? There are hundreds of 30 foot sailboats of all types out there in your price range for sale.
Leaky deck = trouble.
Good luck.
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Old 07-03-2016, 13:41   #26
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

I actually don't think Rawson 30s are bad boats, I think they are quite good, in fact they have great reputations for build, seaworthiness and roominess, if not for speed. There is one right next to my boat. And a newish engine and newish rigging sweeten the deal... but considering what is now available for 14k, I've seen some very nice boats at that price... but it does depend on where you are too. I'd say a little more than half that price would probably be about right if condition is fair in my area.
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Old 07-03-2016, 14:11   #27
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

Quote:
Originally Posted by latka View Post
Lizzy,you have the father I always wanted! Mine did not know the difference between the front and the back of any boat and would throw up as soon as he spotted a bucket with water. Wees zuinig op de jouwe!!
Yeah, the man knew his boats ... We (my brother and I) learned so much from him we still benefit from it every day. Sadly, he passed away a couple of years ago, but not before he had passed on all his love for and a lot of his knowledge about boats & boating
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Old 07-03-2016, 14:21   #28
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

Thanks for all the replies everyone!

More photos can be found here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madman960 View Post
If the others are in better shape for the same amount:
...
3) Offer a lowball number on the boat above and see if they take it or counter with a more suitable number.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailortype View Post
this is a $5K boat absolute max
We made an offer of $8K last night. We thought we were kind of lowballing them, but after hearing everyone's opinion, it may not even be worth that! Could we make a condition such as he has to pay for the haul-out/cleaning/painting as well - to kind of make up for our possible over-bid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdoster View Post
The Rawson 30 was a good boat, but $15K (selling, not asking) is excellent condition and equipped. 8-10K is at or above average and have seen many well below that on sources like craigslist.
This one has a newer engine put in in 2007 I believe, and new standing rigging from 2012; would that make it a little above average and perhaps in the 8-10K range? Or still less than that do you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamburking View Post
If you really like the boat, offer low. Its a 40 year old boat. Also, check about getting insurance. With a 40 year old boat, it can sometime be difficult or even impossible to insure (at any price).
Oh crap, I never thought of this. Should I contact insurance companies first and ask if they’d insure it? Has anyone ever had this problem? Will the insurance companies deny you based on its age or its condition?


Quote:
Originally Posted by hamburking View Post
Honestly, I would offer about $1000 (one thousand). Its 40 years old, needs work, and the seller is in a hurry. The seller should be thrilled to have found someone who really wants his boat.
I’m thinking the broker and owner might just get offended or something and tell me off lol. But we did offer $8K thinking we were low-balling, but it appears it’s not even worth that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamburking View Post
Some lessons here:
- money is not "invested" in a boat, it is spent, and will never be recovered.
- Sellers always overestimate the value of their boat.
- Sellers should not tell their schedule and reveal their desperation.
- Old boats are hard to sell.
- There are many, many, old boats for sale, and very few buyers.
Oh yes, we’re aware of these things. Although there are tons of older boats, there doesn’t seem to be many capable-of-going-offshore-later-on sailboats that we’re going after. 90% are Catalinas, C&Cs, etc with spades/etc. We’re looking for something stronger and more seaworthy to handle long-term cruising. And there’s not a lot around Vancouver especially in our price range (under $15K).

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsurvey View Post
the bow spirit rots out so do the bulkheads.
There didn’t seem to be any water damage anywhere else, just leaking from the bowsprit - but no soft spots or delamination I don’t think. But a surveyor would be needed to be sure, of course.

How difficult/expensive would it be to fix that leak, assuming there were no soft spots? Is it just unbolting the bowsprit and resealing/re-caulking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
tough lil boats. there is a family cruising here--sailed one here from pnw. go for it.
So much conflicting info. “Stay away”, “Go for it”, haha. But yeah, we’ve heard many good things about them. We feared they'd be too slow for the PNW, but slow and safe is okay to us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
I agree that that boat may be a little high $. Without pictures of how well it was outfitted/finished it's hard to say really.
More photos can be seen here. They were taken from videos we took, but they’re better than nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
What's that saying again?
When it's your first boat, [being careful and knowing what to look for] is very difficult. Not just cos you lack the experience, but also because you're so exited about this new part of your life you can't wait and the $ are burning a hole in your pocket.
This must be our 15th viewing in over a year. We're scared sh#tless to be honest haha. Very afraid to pick the "wrong boat" or a boat that'll need twice its purchase price to even get going. It's a little terrifying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
... if at all possible, ask someone with more experience to come along with you when you look at boats. And don't look to buy at first, look to learn.
We've only been in Vancouver for just oven a year. We don't really know many people here, let alone anyone with a sailboat, so right now our sailboat experts are you guys! But we do learn more each sailboat we view.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Regardless, we had a great time in ours. If you want It and it runs well I would offer them no more than 5K. Deck and bottom work are expensive. As is the sail. I looked at a boat someone who was moving away had a few years ago... they ended up giving it away for free! and it was a Catalina with a diesel engine!
Damn, we already offered $8K. Could we retract it, or maybe ask if he additionally pay for the haul-out/cleaning/painting or something?

Couldn’t we find a second-hand headsail and maybe have it recut for not too much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
No soft spots on the deck with a leaky bow sprit?...I doubt it. I had a 77 R-30 pilothouse. It was a foam core deck badly delamed. What a freakin nightmare.
The 2013 insurance survey didn’t find any soft spots or delamination. We couldn’t find any either, we checked around the leaks, too. I thought I read somewhere that Raswson 30s didn’t have cored decks?
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Old 07-03-2016, 15:13   #29
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

I realize this isn't the answer to the question asked, but I would contemplate whether you want a 30' sailboat with a PHRF rating around 240? While I appreciate that Rawsons may be seaworthy, they are really slow, and there must be 1,000 similarly priced boats that rate 180. That's a minute a mile penalty on the Rawson, for every mile you sail.

I'd look at some 1970s to 1980s sturdy little boats like Cal 2-30s, Yankee 30s, older C&Cs, and so forth. What about a Ranger 33?

Faster is funner, to paraphrase Bill Lee.

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Old 07-03-2016, 15:30   #30
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Re: Is this sailboat worth it? (Our first sailboat)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeAndMichelle View Post
We made an offer of $8K last night. We thought we were kind of lowballing them, but after hearing everyone's opinion, it may not even be worth that!
I just looked at the pics and wanted to post "keep looking" but seems a bit late for that. No, $8k isn't lowballing it - if I was selling her, I'd jump on that offer, to be honest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeAndMichelle View Post
Could we make a condition such as he has to pay for the haul-out/cleaning/painting as well - to kind of make up for our possible over-bid?
Usually, you include the conditions such as sea-trail, survey etc. in your offer. You did include the sea trail and survey condition, I assume? usually I'd say a survey is probably not worth the cost on an $8k boat, but in this case, I'd seriously consider it before buying.

Not sure about the details in this case (offer made to owner directly, used brokers etc.) or how it legally works in the US - I'll leave that to the other posters.

But FWIW: if there's a way out, I'd personally take it. That boat hasn't been "a little neglected", it hasn't been maintained for years, it looks like
On a positive note: cleaning her up will make her look a lot less sad and lost

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeAndMichelle View Post
Should I contact insurance companies first and ask if they’d insure it?
My boat is from '74, never had an issue getting insurance. But I'm in the Netherlands, so might be different to the US. But, seeing the number of older boats sailing around, I think you'll be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeAndMichelle View Post
We don't really know many people here, let alone anyone with a sailboat, so right now our sailboat experts are you guys
So, if this one falls through, open a topic here asking for someone to come along with you. No clue as to the number of members near you, but asking never hurts

Edit:
I'm a little confused, to be honest.

You say you guys are 'terrified' of buying a boat that needs a lot of work and $, but you make an offer on the one boat you found that needs both - after you yourselves noticed other boats of the same make, model and asking price are in MUCH better shape.

You then ask here (smart!) but make an offer on the boat before reading the replies?

If she's the boat you want then I'm happy for you but what made you decide this boat is "the one" for you guys, and how did you calculate the $8K? What do you think the boat will have cost you when she's refitted?
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