Is this a Sparkman & Stephens 30 ?

[troppo]

I am considering purchasing a restoration project yacht, been calculating the costs to see if it is worthwhile. The yacht is called a Sparkman & Stephens 30'. However, when I look at the pics on the 'net (have not actually seen the boat yet), it does not seem to match the plans shown.

Yacht, includes plan
S&S30

To my nonexpert eye, the rake at the bow and stern on the plan is steeper than on the yacht. There seems to be more overhang on the yacht than on the plan. Also, the transom looks smaller on the yacht than the plan.

The rudder shape and stern looks a bit more like the S&S designed Hughes 29: HUGHES 29 Sailboat details on sailboatdata.com

What do you think?


troppo

[sarafina]

maybe contact them and ask?

Sparkman & Stephens Yacht Design, Naval Architects, Yacht Sales and Yacht Charters

[Adelie]

The rudder and transom are wrong to be an S&S30.

Transom is about right for Hughes 29 but I don't think it's the one.
Hughes has shorter (fore & aft, skinnier) rudder
Hughes has steeper bow rise.
Hughes has different window layout though that is less convincing
Coaming are very different which would involve a mold change rather than changing the window cutouts.
Rudder on the Hughes does not show skeg.

Of course if I had read the first line of the ad's description I would have noticed it was built in steel in the late '80's which means it was probably a design sold to a limited number of customers who had each of their boats built to order by marine yards of their own choosing or at most vetted by S&S.

[troppo]

Sarafina: Good suggestion, thank you. In fact, I have already sent them an email and am awaiting their reply. I believe they provide good service and will answer requests such as mine.

Adelie: Thank you for that. That confirms my thought that rudder and transom did not fit what the yacht is supposed to be. Also, re the Hughes 29, I agree. The yacht in the advert is shaped more like the Hughes 29 in the transom area than a S&S 30 but it is not a Huges 29. As you say, it may be a limited design by S&S or even some custom work.

New problem:
Since the yacht is not a standard S&S 30, any ideas on how well it would sail? Then with the pinched transom, how much less useable space might there be? My main goal is cruising with living on board for weeks at a time so live-ability is a key focus for me.

[eyschulman]

You can live on a 30 ft boat but if you are going to put the time and $ into a project for that purpose 34-36 ft would be better.

[Jim Cate]

G'Day Troppo,

AS mentioned above, the "real" S&S 30 was built in glass, both here in Oz and in the USA... slightly different designs. We had an American one, built by Yankee Yachts in southern California in 1974 to a design that originated in the late '60s. She was a jewel of a little boat and we did lots of miles in her, including a round trip SF to Hawaii in '83. That S&S 30 was more of a CCA era design and didn't have the IOR shape.

So, while your find may in fact be a 30 foot boat that was designed by S&S, it isn't what most folks would call "a S&S 30". With the big forward overhang, her LWL may be a bit short for her OAL, and being steel, she's likely a bit heavier than optimum. You'll have to evaluate her as you would any other one-off.

Good luck with it all,

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Manly, Qld, Oz

[PAR]

If it's a real S&S it will have a design number associated with it and probably building records at a few different places. >sparkmanstephens.com< would be the place to look first. I would also suspect it will have a builder's plate with the design number, designer, etc. on it as well as a HIN or other number, which would be used on the title and registration of this yacht.

[cat man do]

To add further confusion there was also the Defiance 30 which was also an S&S design
Many of these were built in Brisbane
DEFIANCE Boats for sale in Australia - BoatPoint Australia

[troppo]

I have just heard back from the owner re the width of the transom. It is 670 mm, just over two feet, wide. According to the basic plans of a S&S 30 that I have seen, the transom width would be about 5 feet. The model She 31 which came out not too many years before the S&S 30 had a narrow transom but I think it was about 3 foot. So this boat has a VERY narrow transom. Wonder how that affects its sailing ability?

Cat man do: Thanks for the link. The Defiance boats look a bit like the older model S&S called She 31.

[troppo]

Thanks PAR. I will ask the owner if he knows of any design number or other identifying mark.

Eyschulman, I would have to agree, a 35 footer would be sweet. This project, which is slowly going pear shaped, looked very feasible to start with which I why I got interested. Too many of the 'some restoration needed' yachts I have looked at would end up costing more than an already restored one in great condition. This one originally seemed ok. I am not so sure now as I think with such a narrow transom, I am pushing it for the space I was expecting to get in a proper S&S 30.

[NYCSavage]

I wont even be close to figuring out the model, but if I had to guess, then she looks like "Ella's Pink Lady" the S&S 34 sailed around the world by Jessica Watson. So maybe it is a S&S?

Also found this:



She looks similar, has less cabin windows than "Pink Lady" though

I had just read a magazine article about "Pink Lady" when I stumbled upon this thread, maybe it was fate? lol

[troppo]

I can see a resemblance between the S&S 34 and the one I was looking at. Kind of like a family thing with the 34 being the bigger sister (or would it be brother?). I would have been estatic if the wrong identification turned out to be that the boat was a S&S 34 but I am prone to dreaming. They don't call me troppo for nothing.

[Joli]

The plans are the venerable Tartan 30 which is an S&S desin. If the yellow boat is supposed to be a steel version of the Tartan 30 they missed the mark.

[troppo]

Joli:It is easy to get confused as some of the designs vary little. The plans shown on S&S30 are of #2014 known as S&S 30 [Please see page 15 of the Sparkman & Stephens document http://www.sparkmanstephens.info/doc...C4CT7yqTe9.pdf. )

Apparently, the Tartan 30 (#2016) was out at the same time a #2014 but was a foot wider, shallower draft, prop right behind the keel. (See page 17 in above linked Sparkman & Stephens document.)

The yellow boat is supposed to be a close cousin to the Tartan 30 (#2016), the S&S 30 (#2014). And yes, the yellow boat is supposed to be like the plans shown on the yellow boat's website but, as you say, they have missed the mark. Sad really, as I was keen on the S&S 30 and would be happy if they had made a mistake and the boat was a Tartan 30 not a S&S 30. They are great boats, however, what the yellow boat is is a mystery.

[troppo]

Sparkman & Stephens company responded to my request and sent me mini-plans of the standard S&S 30. These plans were the same as the seller had on his website but were much clearer. [A big cheer to Sparkman & Stephens for their email as so many companies could not be bothered given we are talking about a plan several decades old.) Even with their help, I am no further along with identifying what 'Adventures in Paradise' is other than it is not the classic S&S 30 as it was thought to be.

There is a classic S&S 30 for sale on another website which its side view and rear view clearly fit the S&S 30 plan as given on 'Adventures in Paradise' website.
http://www.boatsales.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?seot=1&R=8915581&silo=-1&__Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_Price_Decimal|1 ||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&Cr=&trec s=22&__N=1456%20285%204294910475
When I look at this boat 'Evening Star' and compare it to the S&S 30 plans, it fits like a glove, so I am more convinced than ever that 'Adventures in Paradise' is not a S&S 30. Unfortunate, as I was keen to get it but I am not prepared to buy an unknown design.