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Old 23-01-2012, 15:20   #31
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

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You buy a boat... look at losing money.. thats a fact of life...
HR, Oyster, Swan... it matters not... its like Dulce, Gucci extra... to me its just a name tagged on to up the ante... does not make it any more capable than a equivalent Bendie for what I want...
Dream on you status junkies... .
You're joking with these blatant generalizations right? You mean to tell me that a 1982 Yorktown 35 is the same as a 1982 HR 352? Dream on. There are a handful of boats out there that are to this day kept to better standards than the rest. It's how they stay in business and have a certain type of clientele. Like Rebel pointed out, they are worth more if the systems are up to date but the base price of the boat will be higher that a shotty factory production boat.
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Old 23-01-2012, 15:21   #32
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

Asking 100+ for a 20+ (years), 35'- (feet) boat is asking a lot.

HR352 is a heavy, slow, dark boat that will not appeal to the younger generation. If you are Dutch or Swedish then you may like it. But if you are Dutch or Swedish then you will know how to get the same boat at 2/3 of the asking, or less.

BTW I do not know the US market but over here in the EU the market belongs to the buyer right now.

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Old 23-01-2012, 15:29   #33
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

It's the same here...a buyers market. Having said that I noticed the "I can't afford a boat" people of 5 years ago are still saying the same thing with the exception that boats are now 2/3 the price!
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Old 23-01-2012, 15:31   #34
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
You're joking with these blatant generalizations right? You mean to tell me that a 1982 Yorktown 35 is the same as a 1982 HR 352? Dream on. There are a handful of boats out there that are to this day kept to better standards than the rest. It's how they stay in business and have a certain type of clientele. Like Rebel pointed out, they are worth more if the systems are up to date but the base price of the boat will be higher that a shotty factory production boat.
A falling tide lowers all boats.

Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.
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Old 23-01-2012, 15:34   #35
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pirate Re: Is the market really this bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
You're joking with these blatant generalizations right? You mean to tell me that a 1982 Yorktown 35 is the same as a 1982 HR 352? Dream on. There are a handful of boats out there that are to this day kept to better standards than the rest. It's how they stay in business and have a certain type of clientele. Like Rebel pointed out, they are worth more if the systems are up to date but the base price of the boat will be higher that a shotty factory production boat.
LOL... you have not been keeping up with the HR news have you... and to be honest I've sailed both and I'll take the Bendi any day thanks...
Be interested in your handful... next time look behind the gloss... be surprised how shotty it can be in a 'Better Standard' boat...
Dream On....
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Old 23-01-2012, 15:53   #36
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

+1, boatman61... Capt Phil
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Old 23-01-2012, 15:58   #37
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

I'd say we need a surveyor in on this conversation. Again, I would question how much experience you have with HR's, Oyster's Swan's ect., qualities.
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Old 23-01-2012, 16:08   #38
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

Boat market was based on the same foundations as the housing market - lots of people with no money buying things they can't afford, with other people's (pretend) money...........and with little or no thought (apart from "that sounds nice, I want it now").

Those days are gone (and IMO won't be coming back for a generation, if ever) - but lots of plastic sailing boats from the building boom will be around for a long time yet to keep the market down - but, as always with boats, most will (still) be overpriced tat.
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Old 23-01-2012, 16:09   #39
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
LOL... you have not been keeping up with the HR news have you... and to be honest I've sailed both and I'll take the Bendi any day thanks...
Be interested in your handful... next time look behind the gloss... be surprised how shotty it can be in a 'Better Standard' boat...
Dream On....

+ 1
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Old 23-01-2012, 16:14   #40
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pirate Re: Is the market really this bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
I'd say we need a surveyor in on this conversation. Again, I would question how much experience you have with HR's, Oyster's Swan's ect., qualities.
Careful.... you'll end up sounding like a Westsail owner...
I've never sailed an Oyster.. or a Swan come to that...
but I have worked with/on a variety of Scandanavian, German, Dutch and Brit 'quality boats' and found untreated white wood holding up the cabin sole, behind paneling.. undersized screws.. poor bonding... the usual if they can't see it it don't matter... pretty much the norm with production boats but not what I expected with the 'Marque's'...
But... 'You pays yer money and take's yer chance's'... as they say...
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Old 23-01-2012, 16:33   #41
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

I have little doubt that the HR is an awesome boat at that price. I do suspect, however, that the majority of folks looking for an older boat are just as likely to pick something 10 ft bigger, or more, at the same price, figuring, rightly or wrongly, that they're going to have to put a considerable amount of work in either.
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Old 23-01-2012, 17:12   #42
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

I will echo what others have said and add context.

Let's say you opened a Nordstrom - corner of 5th and 57th in Manhattan. Think about the customers who will be walking by who may buy your wares.

Now, same story except you open at a mall in Detroit.

It is probably a fine yacht (a brand new re-power, professionally installed might run 15K?). Put it where the buyers are rather than expect the buyers to fly to the Caribbean and check out a pig in a poke.

If they want to market the yacht in the Caribbean, they might try to manage it in charter for a season and screen the customers to find a potential buyer and give them a great deal. Otherwise I would pay a delivery service to take it to a first rate yacht broker in Annapolis (Bay Yacht Group) or points North (Brownell in Mattapoisett MA). The boat you buy is where you find it, not in some distant port.

If the engine is a little ragged out and they do not want to spring for the refit, I would suggest the Chesapeake Bay as Bay yacht could be trusted to charter it responsibly and possibly offset some expenses and help with delivery. In that locale, if the engine expires, it is easy to deal.

Brownell is a first class yard and they would keep her absolutely pristine for a reasonable fee and show it - they can splash it with their submersible hydraulic trailers in like 30 minutes for a sea trial and sea trial is where the deal gets done.

It is a very good idea to buy a boat at a jumping off point, imagine the deals in the Cape Verdes or what you could pick up if you were willing to fly anywhere and you knew what you were doing? Great boat - unbelievably cheap!
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Old 23-01-2012, 17:41   #43
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

I being from the car collector car industry love the brand loyalty. In the car business it often has little to do with quality but more about popularity. A 1965 mustang is worth a lot more than a 1965 Lincoln. I was also watching the debate on how to make money while cruising, how about moving boats to a better market. Maybe even make money on the way. No not by smuggling but adventuring. I also bought a boat that I thought I might be able to make a few bucks on with some hard work. It doesn't look good right now.
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Old 23-01-2012, 17:41   #44
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

I'd buy it for that price.... I guess I'm not used to the new reality of the boat market.

I built my house in 2004 and sold it in 2011. Bought a new boat in 2010... now this market is dropping too. Maybe I can be a barometer for where the next market will drop
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Old 23-01-2012, 17:45   #45
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

You know what they say about the boat business...

If you want to make a million bucks in the boat business...
Go and get two million bucks...
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