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Old 23-01-2012, 11:48   #16
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

Yes, the market is that bad. Actually, it is worse. The valve of paper currency ( opposed to real money, as in silver coins ) has probably dropped 10% in value since Christmas. With Dear Leader asking for 1.2 Trillion more in borrowing, even the silver bullion market is up 20% since Dec. 26th. Check, for example, the price of a refrigerator six months ago, compared to today. While this is worrisome, it is combined with the forecast of $4 per gallon gasoline and a number of other grim reminders that kicking the can down the road, debt wise, is leading to disaster. Fear is dominating the market. Massive inflation to dilute the debt, like every other government on earth has done throughout history, looks to be the option most likely to happen. Given this situation, anyone who has any cash feels threatened and is unlikely to spend on "toys". Folks are most focused on preserving wealth and investing in a sailboat is only appealing to a very few people. Folks with all kinds on money, who don't care about finances because they can't possibly go broke, buy new boats. The average Joe is worried. Medical bills are of more concern to the aging population of Captains that bigger boats. This is a scarey time.

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Old 23-01-2012, 12:19   #17
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

I agree with most other people who are posting on this site, other things to consider are the age of the boat, what lenders are willing to lend, and what insurers are willing to insure at a reasonable price. Anyone who has tried to borrow money for a boat resently will find that it is nearly impossible to get money for an older boat(older than 15 years old) and the hoops that you need to jump through are daunting. The fact that it is very difficult to get money for something, and insurance is getting harder to get also, so for many boats, the only way to buy it, is if the buyer has cash in hand. A lot of cash buyers want a new or newer boat which can be insured at a reasonable price and lenders are more likely to lend money on. Older boats that are in realy good condition are almost a steal right now, because the pool of potential buyers that qualify to buy it is so small.

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Old 23-01-2012, 12:21   #18
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
And still... HR or not it's a 35 ft boat right? Lotta money for a 35 in this .

Maybe you should check the going prices for these 352 before generalizing like that. They are known to be some of the strongest, safest and better sailing boats out there. My 35 is the predecessor and in no way compares to the quality of the newer ones. Not to say that my Rasmus 35 is not an excellent Blue Water craft.
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"
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Old 23-01-2012, 12:25   #19
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

Simple rules to understand when buying or selling a boat.

Boat Math: you buy a boat for $X invest $X into maintenance and refit, and sell the boat for $X. In boating X+X=X...boat math.

The other problem they lack patience, they went and bought a boat that would probably be on the market for a lot longer, while they still owned a boat. Then they turn around and tell 40 000 followers that they own two boats and need to sell one. The recreational boat market is a buyers market, and they did some pretty stupid selling maneuvers.

As a buyer, I know they really need to sell their boat, and I have cash. I bet they get 50k for it, maybe 60k if they're lucky.

I've bought and sold and bought in the past year, the market (no matter where you are) is cut throat, and the buyer has all the power.

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Old 23-01-2012, 12:30   #20
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

I think there is no question it is a strong buyer's market and will continue to be. Doesn't matter what a boat is "worth" - you bought it for X or you put X into it etc etc. The only thing that matters is what someone is willing to pay for it-THAT-is the "market". That maybe a 35 footer for 70K or a 65 footer for 70K-whatever someone who wants the boat and has the money is willing to pay. I think in this brave new world we all live in, if you want and/or need to sell a boat you have to sell it for what someone is willing to pay for it. Period.
So, if you are seller-yes, the market is bad. If you are a buyer, the market is good.
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Old 23-01-2012, 12:39   #21
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

The brokers are still asking some pretty good prices and sell-by-owners are selling what they can get. Some people are pretty good at sales and can market their own boat. It's hard to sell in this market, but I know someone who got a steal and had to give their buyer a steal to make the deals. If someone has to sell, then the price will drop to whatever offers actually exist.
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Old 23-01-2012, 12:53   #22
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

I know a guy that has a decent hunter 34(?)and he lost his job two years ago and hasnt made a marina or house payment..when they told him they were going to pull his boat he took the sails and chushions and said "at least they wont get the sails"..I offered him some money for the boat and to pay the slip fee and he said no..I guess he would rather give it to the people he cusses all the time and calls "thieves"..strange fellow...DVC ps same thing with the house ,I offered him 10000 and take over the mortage,he said no!cut off his nose to spite his face...yea the whole world wide market is a bunch of Dookie!...DVC
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Old 23-01-2012, 12:57   #23
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pirate Re: Is the market really this bad?

You buy a boat... look at losing money.. thats a fact of life... unless its your last boat till you die..
HR, Oyster, Swan... it matters not... its like Dulce, Gucci extra... to me its just a name tagged on to up the ante... does not make it any more capable than a equivalent Bendie for what I want...
Dream on you status junkies... there's just as good a deal in Primark...
The value exists in your head...

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Old 23-01-2012, 12:57   #24
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

Great boat, great price, just like the thousands of other great boats at great prices out there. One problem I see with this one (and I'm surprised nobody else jumped on this) is it's location. According to the blog "We know that the boat is located a bit far from most who are looking for a Hallberg Rassy...". I assume this means its currently in the caribbean somewhere. Good luck finding a local buyer down there, and for U.S. buyers that's just one more obstacle toward considering this boat.

Now if I were trying to sell this boat, I'd find a crew to sail her back to the U.S., then figure out which city along the southern or eastern seaboards has best boat sales movement, plop her there and advertise the heck out of it. A few grand investment in such a scheme would most certainly have good return on investment with sales price.
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Old 23-01-2012, 13:04   #25
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

That high hours engine is rated at 61 HP if it's a MD21B. I have posted here before that a total rebuild or new engine runs about $200 to $400 per 1 horsepower. So a total repower by qualified people including removal and replacement and the extras will cost $12,000 to $24,000. Plus the hassle because I will bet you a boat buck that it happens in the middle of your funtime. Just something to consider in the asking price.
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Old 23-01-2012, 13:07   #26
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

I’m looking at boats these days and prices are dropping fast on great cruising boats a Spencer 1330 I have watched that was totally refit in 2004-5 then cruised for a year has gone from 135k to 72k so they don’t need to pay next years moorage which is due March 1st. I would say if they are asking 100k and need to sell 50% off would not be uncommon, if they want to sell 30% off. If they don’t counter an offer of 35% below asking at all they either don’t need to sell or are stupid thinking its worth allot more. I saw a well sorted Bristol Channel Cutter drop to 37k to get it sold last fall.
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Old 23-01-2012, 13:10   #27
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

Yeah an interesting thing about the gizmos and doo-dads on boats it that it raises the possible price, but each system is expected to be top notch and if not the price suffers.

A boat with no inverter is worth the the same or more than one with a busted inverter or one with a bad wiring job. Boats are always seem to be worth more piece by piece than in a package, so you can get into an argument about the value of component items.
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Old 23-01-2012, 14:01   #28
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

I tried to take advantage of the current market to purchase a Valiant 42. I made one written cash offer (no counter received) and made an inquiry on two others to see if the seller was interested in anything involving a substantial discount from asking price.
I finally came to the realization that Valiants generally do not sell for firesale prices even in today's economy. Could be that they are better at long range planning and aren't subject to market fluctuations. Who knows but I sure was surprised given the current economy.
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Old 23-01-2012, 14:04   #29
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

Could be-but there are also always folks who are sure that "while the market may be down, THEIR xyz 42, is worth some inflated amount"
Seems to me that unless they get lucky, they just don't sell their boat...
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Old 23-01-2012, 14:05   #30
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Re: Is the market really this bad?

What year is this boat? In addition to an engine that probably needs replacement, these HRs have teak decks. They're great until the decks need replacement. Then it becomes very expensive. Also the HR 352 has a smaller interior than the market is demanding these days.

I sold a boat and bought a new boat last June. When selling, I priced my boat realistically. When buying, I offered substantially below asking. Both worked. BTW, I looked at a Hallberg Rassy 382 that was priced way above the Bristol 38.8 that I eventually bought, yet the Bristol has a considerably nicer interior. I didn't sail the HR, but the Bristol sails very ver well, plus it has shoal draft, which the HR doesn't.

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