Cruisers Forum

Join CruisersForum Today

Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 23-01-2012, 11:48   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Maine
Boat: Irwin Citation 34
Posts: 136
Re: Is the market really this bad?

Yes, the market is that bad. Actually, it is worse. The valve of paper currency ( opposed to real money, as in silver coins ) has probably dropped 10% in value since Christmas. With Dear Leader asking for 1.2 Trillion more in borrowing, even the silver bullion market is up 20% since Dec. 26th. Check, for example, the price of a refrigerator six months ago, compared to today. While this is worrisome, it is combined with the forecast of $4 per gallon gasoline and a number of other grim reminders that kicking the can down the road, debt wise, is leading to disaster. Fear is dominating the market. Massive inflation to dilute the debt, like every other government on earth has done throughout history, looks to be the option most likely to happen. Given this situation, anyone who has any cash feels threatened and is unlikely to spend on "toys". Folks are most focused on preserving wealth and investing in a sailboat is only appealing to a very few people. Folks with all kinds on money, who don't care about finances because they can't possibly go broke, buy new boats. The average Joe is worried. Medical bills are of more concern to the aging population of Captains that bigger boats. This is a scarey time.

TomandAnitas34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2012, 12:19   #17
Senior Cruiser
Rocketman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Naples, FL
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 400
Posts: 668
Re: Is the market really this bad?

I agree with most other people who are posting on this site, other things to consider are the age of the boat, what lenders are willing to lend, and what insurers are willing to insure at a reasonable price. Anyone who has tried to borrow money for a boat resently will find that it is nearly impossible to get money for an older boat(older than 15 years old) and the hoops that you need to jump through are daunting. The fact that it is very difficult to get money for something, and insurance is getting harder to get also, so for many boats, the only way to buy it, is if the buyer has cash in hand. A lot of cash buyers want a new or newer boat which can be insured at a reasonable price and lenders are more likely to lend money on. Older boats that are in realy good condition are almost a steal right now, because the pool of potential buyers that qualify to buy it is so small.

Rocketman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2012, 12:21   #18
Registered User
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Mexico, working on the boat
Boat: Hallberg Rassy 35 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 7,527
Images: 5
Re: Is the market really this bad?

Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
And still... HR or not it's a 35 ft boat right? Lotta money for a 35 in this .

Maybe you should check the going prices for these 352 before generalizing like that. They are known to be some of the strongest, safest and better sailing boats out there. My 35 is the predecessor and in no way compares to the quality of the newer ones. Not to say that my Rasmus 35 is not an excellent Blue Water craft.
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2012, 12:25   #19
Registered User
youmeandthed's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Boat: Union Polaris 36
Posts: 153
Images: 1
Re: Is the market really this bad?

Simple rules to understand when buying or selling a boat.

Boat Math: you buy a boat for $X invest $X into maintenance and refit, and sell the boat for $X. In boating X+X=X...boat math.

The other problem they lack patience, they went and bought a boat that would probably be on the market for a lot longer, while they still owned a boat. Then they turn around and tell 40 000 followers that they own two boats and need to sell one. The recreational boat market is a buyers market, and they did some pretty stupid selling maneuvers.

As a buyer, I know they really need to sell their boat, and I have cash. I bet they get 50k for it, maybe 60k if they're lucky.

I've bought and sold and bought in the past year, the market (no matter where you are) is cut throat, and the buyer has all the power.

Life's a dream, live it!
youmeandthed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2012, 12:30   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 26
Re: Is the market really this bad?

I think there is no question it is a strong buyer's market and will continue to be. Doesn't matter what a boat is "worth" - you bought it for X or you put X into it etc etc. The only thing that matters is what someone is willing to pay for it-THAT-is the "market". That maybe a 35 footer for 70K or a 65 footer for 70K-whatever someone who wants the boat and has the money is willing to pay. I think in this brave new world we all live in, if you want and/or need to sell a boat you have to sell it for what someone is willing to pay for it. Period.
So, if you are seller-yes, the market is bad. If you are a buyer, the market is good.
newboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2012, 12:39   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Wharram custom 44'
Posts: 231
Re: Is the market really this bad?

The brokers are still asking some pretty good prices and sell-by-owners are selling what they can get. Some people are pretty good at sales and can market their own boat. It's hard to sell in this market, but I know someone who got a steal and had to give their buyer a steal to make the deals. If someone has to sell, then the price will drop to whatever offers actually exist.
kaimusailing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2012, 12:53   #22
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: north carolina
Boat: command yachtsdouglas32
Posts: 3,113
Re: Is the market really this bad?

I know a guy that has a decent hunter 34(?)and he lost his job two years ago and hasnt made a marina or house payment..when they told him they were going to pull his boat he took the sails and chushions and said "at least they wont get the sails"..I offered him some money for the boat and to pay the slip fee and he said no..I guess he would rather give it to the people he cusses all the time and calls "thieves"..strange fellow...DVC ps same thing with the house ,I offered him 10000 and take over the mortage,he said no!cut off his nose to spite his face...yea the whole world wide market is a bunch of Dookie!...DVC
tropicalescape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2012, 12:57   #23
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 18,323
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Is the market really this bad?

You buy a boat... look at losing money.. thats a fact of life... unless its your last boat till you die..
HR, Oyster, Swan... it matters not... its like Dulce, Gucci extra... to me its just a name tagged on to up the ante... does not make it any more capable than a equivalent Bendie for what I want...
Dream on you status junkies... there's just as good a deal in Primark...
The value exists in your head...
I do not exist to impress the world.
I exist to live my life in a way that will make me happy.

boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2012, 12:57   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Seattle
Boat: Tartan 30 & Columbia 26
Posts: 158
Images: 2
Re: Is the market really this bad?

Great boat, great price, just like the thousands of other great boats at great prices out there. One problem I see with this one (and I'm surprised nobody else jumped on this) is it's location. According to the blog "We know that the boat is located a bit far from most who are looking for a Hallberg Rassy...". I assume this means its currently in the caribbean somewhere. Good luck finding a local buyer down there, and for U.S. buyers that's just one more obstacle toward considering this boat.

Now if I were trying to sell this boat, I'd find a crew to sail her back to the U.S., then figure out which city along the southern or eastern seaboards has best boat sales movement, plop her there and advertise the heck out of it. A few grand investment in such a scheme would most certainly have good return on investment with sales price.
wristwister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2012, 13:04   #25
Registered User
Sand crab's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Boat: 34' Crowther tri
Posts: 3,137
Re: Is the market really this bad?

That high hours engine is rated at 61 HP if it's a MD21B. I have posted here before that a total rebuild or new engine runs about $200 to $400 per 1 horsepower. So a total repower by qualified people including removal and replacement and the extras will cost $12,000 to $24,000. Plus the hassle because I will bet you a boat buck that it happens in the middle of your funtime. Just something to consider in the asking price.
We don't need no stinking badges.
Sand crab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2012, 13:07   #26
Registered User
nwdiver's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Boat: C&C Landfall 38
Posts: 245
Re: Is the market really this bad?

I’m looking at boats these days and prices are dropping fast on great cruising boats a Spencer 1330 I have watched that was totally refit in 2004-5 then cruised for a year has gone from 135k to 72k so they don’t need to pay next years moorage which is due March 1st. I would say if they are asking 100k and need to sell 50% off would not be uncommon, if they want to sell 30% off. If they don’t counter an offer of 35% below asking at all they either don’t need to sell or are stupid thinking its worth allot more. I saw a well sorted Bristol Channel Cutter drop to 37k to get it sold last fall.
nwdiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2012, 13:10   #27
Senior Cruiser
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Re: Is the market really this bad?

Yeah an interesting thing about the gizmos and doo-dads on boats it that it raises the possible price, but each system is expected to be top notch and if not the price suffers.

A boat with no inverter is worth the the same or more than one with a busted inverter or one with a bad wiring job. Boats are always seem to be worth more piece by piece than in a package, so you can get into an argument about the value of component items.
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2012, 14:01   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Victoria, BC
Boat: Catalina 36 MKII
Posts: 848
Re: Is the market really this bad?

I tried to take advantage of the current market to purchase a Valiant 42. I made one written cash offer (no counter received) and made an inquiry on two others to see if the seller was interested in anything involving a substantial discount from asking price.
I finally came to the realization that Valiants generally do not sell for firesale prices even in today's economy. Could be that they are better at long range planning and aren't subject to market fluctuations. Who knows but I sure was surprised given the current economy.
Jd1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2012, 14:04   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 26
Re: Is the market really this bad?

Could be-but there are also always folks who are sure that "while the market may be down, THEIR xyz 42, is worth some inflated amount"
Seems to me that unless they get lucky, they just don't sell their boat...
newboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2012, 14:05   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: Bristol 38.8
Posts: 1,625
Re: Is the market really this bad?

What year is this boat? In addition to an engine that probably needs replacement, these HRs have teak decks. They're great until the decks need replacement. Then it becomes very expensive. Also the HR 352 has a smaller interior than the market is demanding these days.

I sold a boat and bought a new boat last June. When selling, I priced my boat realistically. When buying, I offered substantially below asking. Both worked. BTW, I looked at a Hallberg Rassy 382 that was priced way above the Bristol 38.8 that I eventually bought, yet the Bristol has a considerably nicer interior. I didn't sail the HR, but the Bristol sails very ver well, plus it has shoal draft, which the HR doesn't.

Curmudgeon is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Business Case for Next-Generation Chartplotting hyman Navigation 17 24-11-2011 22:34
Vendor Space Still Available: Florida Marine Flea Market and Seafood Festival LarryBu Commercial Posts 0 22-08-2011 07:03

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2015 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:09.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.