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Old 12-02-2012, 18:10   #211
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

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Originally Posted by Notpopeye View Post
it is all relative to one's perspective. I owned a boat that sunk during Hurricane Juan in 1985, while in her slip. I bought that boat brand new and recall that a new 34-37 foot good quality sailboat sold new for around $35,000 or so.
Imagine my sticker shock now that I am trying to get back into sailing and looking for a boat to buy. Used boats are selling for more than they cost when new. ( an example is an Island Packet 27, I have a brochure that lists a 1992 new one for $65,000 but try and buy a 1992 now and you will find ones in decent shape are selling for $69,000 and up)
Take a look at new boats you find even teeny tiny decent quality boats selling for well over $100,000. An example would be a Dana 24, Base price is $149,000. Or a lesser quality small boat, a Com-Pac 27 and see the Base price is around $110,000.

Now, I keep hearing how boat prices are very low right now but to an old guy like me who remembers what boats costs way back when, and suddenly they seem expensive. Throw in the fact that 25 year old boats are selling for more than they sold for when new and it seems crazy.

Yes, I know, continuous maintenance, repairs, refitting and upkeep on a boat is expensive but isn't that part of ownership? Should that make the price of the boat not only retain it's original cost value but actually increase in value?

Maybe, but I dunno. And factor in that a 25 year or older fiberglass boat is going to have some inherit glass problems such as blistering, core rot, delamination, etc and you get something that not only costs more used than it did when new, but it will also need lots of money spent to get it in new condition.

Just an observation here. Another observation, people are not buying because the economy sucks and people are reticent to spend money on anything that is not absolutely essential.
I don't know where you are getting those prices, but they are certainly not actual selling prices for used boats. If you really want to buy a boat I am sure you can find a very good deal somewhere, as long as you don't restrict yourself t something newer than 10 years old. This is the best buyer's market for sailboats in a very, very long time.

What size and type of boat do you have in mind to buy?
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Old 12-02-2012, 18:13   #212
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

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Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
Keep looking around and do it with an open mind. First, nobody is paying the asking price on used boats, and even new boats are negotiable. Second, I'd much rather buy a much more capable and comfortable older 34 or 35-footer for $34,000-$35,000 than one of those twenty-somethings for more than $100,000. You can find some nice 30 footers for less than $20,000.
+1 Agree 110%

No offense to the manufacturer but you would have to be insane to pay over $100K for Com-Pac 27. IMHO of course.
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Old 12-02-2012, 18:17   #213
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

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No offense to the manufacturer but you would have to be insane to pay over $100K for Com-Pac 27.
And manufacturers wonder why the market is so bad!
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Old 12-02-2012, 18:17   #214
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Notpopeye View Post
it is all relative to one's perspective. I owned a boat that sunk during Hurricane Juan in 1985, while in her slip. I bought that boat brand new and recall that a new 34-37 foot good quality sailboat sold new for around $35,000 or so.
Imagine my sticker shock now that I am trying to get back into sailing and looking for a boat to buy. Used boats are selling for more than they cost when new. ( an example is an Island Packet 27, I have a brochure that lists a 1992 new one for $65,000 but try and buy a 1992 now and you will find ones in decent shape are selling for $69,000 and up)
Take a look at new boats you find even teeny tiny decent quality boats selling for well over $100,000. An example would be a Dana 24, Base price is $149,000. Or a lesser quality small boat, a Com-Pac 27 and see the Base price is around $110,000.

Now, I keep hearing how boat prices are very low right now but to an old guy like me who remembers what boats costs way back when, and suddenly they seem expensive. Throw in the fact that 25 year old boats are selling for more than they sold for when new and it seems crazy.

Yes, I know, continuous maintenance, repairs, refitting and upkeep on a boat is expensive but isn't that part of ownership? Should that make the price of the boat not only retain it's original cost value but actually increase in value?

Maybe, but I dunno. And factor in that a 25 year or older fiberglass boat is going to have some inherit glass problems such as blistering, core rot, delamination, etc and you get something that not only costs more used than it did when new, but it will also need lots of money spent to get it in new condition.

Just an observation here. Another observation, people are not buying because the economy sucks and people are reticent to spend money on anything that is not absolutely essential.
Where does the "selling for $69,000 and up" come from ?

The most expensive IP 27 currently on Yachtworld has an asking price of $46,500. Given the hurge number of similar boats priced well below that price it seems fair to guess that a decent one can be had for well under $40,000.
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Old 12-02-2012, 18:24   #215
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

I am looking for a seaworthy boat that I can single hand and also use as a liveaboard. I intend to sail her down to the Caribbean where I will cruise for a while before heading to the South Pacific.
Because maintenance cost go up exponentially with boat size, I am looking for something between 27 feet and 33 feet. I looked at Dana 24's, Island Packet 27/29 and 31's. I have also looked at Pacific Seacraft 31. As for older boats, I have looked at a 1961 Rhodes Chesapeake 32, a 1985 PS Mariah 31, a 1989 Com-Pac 27 and a few Hunters. I ruled out Hunters because they are absolutely not what I would consider seaworthy and the Com-Pac 27, while decently built, are not very seaworthy either. I have traveled hundreds of miles several times to look at boats and will eventually find one that "grabs my heart".
As for prices, check out yachtworld and get a glimpse of what people want for boats. For higher prices, check out Sailboatlistings. You will be surprised.
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Old 12-02-2012, 18:25   #216
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

and oh, the $69,000 and up comes from the asking price for IP29's. I have 4 or 5 of em bookmarked.
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Old 12-02-2012, 18:27   #217
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

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And manufacturers wonder why the market is so bad!
I wrote to Com-Pac and got the price list from Gerald Hutchins, one of the owners.

I also wrote to Seacraft Yachts, the manufacturer for Dana 24 and got the pricelist from them.

After I woke up (cause I passed out with the seemingly ridiculously high prices), I decided I better get a used boat.
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Old 12-02-2012, 18:30   #218
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

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After I woke up (cause I passed out with the seemingly ridiculously high prices), I decided I better get a used boat.
It is amazing what they are asking isn't it? Presumably somebody buys one occasionally.
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Old 12-02-2012, 18:34   #219
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

Been kicking fenders here as well.

Found quite a few we really like, but most are far away from where we currently reside. That said, have plans for a road trip next week to see if the boats are as nice as the pictures. Two of the three boats we lined up now have offers on them, so maybe the market is turning.
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Old 12-02-2012, 18:45   #220
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

Don't give up even if the broker says a boat has an offer on it. A ton of offers fall through for one reason or another. For that matter, sales fall through after the survey or when the owner can't get financing. Those type of events tend to make owners even more anxious to sell.
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Old 12-02-2012, 18:48   #221
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

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Originally Posted by Khagan1227 View Post
Two of the three boats we lined up now have offers on them, so maybe the market is turning.
I doubt it. They never were when we were looking.

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Two of the three boats we lined up now have offers on them, so maybe the market is turning.
More likely that sellers are getting the message and pricing their boats more appropriately. I saw some statistics from YW recently and the average boat that "sold" was on the market around 250+ days. Remember those are just ones that sold.
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Old 12-02-2012, 19:10   #222
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

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Originally Posted by Notpopeye View Post
As for prices, check out yachtworld and get a glimpse of what people want for boats. For higher prices, check out Sailboatlistings. You will be surprised.
I have been watching the prices on Sailboatlistings for the last year or so in Oregon and WA, and even though the prices have dropped slightly overall, none of the boats seem to be moving.
This one seems a little on the high side. As a novice, I'm sure I'm missing something...?? 2004 Custom Built Cutter Skookum hull sailboat for sale in Oregon
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Old 12-02-2012, 19:18   #223
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

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I have been watching the prices on Sailboatlistings for the last year or so in Oregon and WA, and even though the prices have dropped slightly overall, none of the boats seem to be moving.
This one seems a little on the high side. As a novice, I'm sure I'm missing something...?? 2004 Custom Built Cutter Skookum hull sailboat for sale in Oregon
Yea that pricing is off by an order of magnitude. Probably a typo or someone is seriously nuts. For that kind of money you could get a very lightly used Hinckley or almost new HR in the same size range.
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Old 12-02-2012, 19:29   #224
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

I picked up my Westerly Centaur off of craigslist for $1000. Didnt need a damn thing to sail her the ten hours up the Chessy and can easily be made into liveaborad condition. Hell, its there now if it was someplace warm! its filthy so its not "wife" condition yet, but lots of winter left...
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Old 12-02-2012, 19:56   #225
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

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I have been watching the prices on Sailboatlistings for the last year or so in Oregon and WA, and even though the prices have dropped slightly overall, none of the boats seem to be moving.
This one seems a little on the high side. As a novice, I'm sure I'm missing something...?? 2004 Custom Built Cutter Skookum hull sailboat for sale in Oregon
That is one seriously ugly boat.
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