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Old 09-02-2012, 19:43   #196
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

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They are scattered all over Europe but tend to gather in VAT havens like Croatia and Turkey. When I was shopping they filled my short list. The two giveaways are the "tax unpaid" label and a quality brand.

You will generally find a boat owned by a rich old guy who chartered the barest amount necessary to get his tax break.

Maybe you'll get lucky and buy one.
Theres a Lagoon 440 in Turkey that has only ever been washed with drinking water NEVER tap water, i've looked at it and it's better than new SS anchor SS chain!!!! I would just have trouble with bleeding Dorados and Mackeral on deck.
It's been withdrawn from sale for another season whilst he awaits his new boat to be built.
Always had a Captain on board...poor guy sleeps in the forepeak (air-con of course)!!!!!!
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Old 09-02-2012, 19:44   #197
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pirate Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

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We started internet boat hunting 2 years ago. We definitely are looking at boats now that were distant dreams back then.
Some of the original boats are still on the market at prices that are obviously unrealistic. Others have gone and I'd love to know what they actually sold for.

Our actual boat hunt starts next week... in Europe... where the ice age has returned!
Try being cheeky on this one with a fast cash purchase... if you like it..
Never know till you try...
All they can say is Yes.... or FO.....
Olympic Adverture 47 Boats for sale Gibraltar, Olympic Used boat sales, Olympic Sailing Yachts For Sale 1976 Olympic - Apollo Duck
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Old 09-02-2012, 20:01   #198
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

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Theres a Lagoon 440 in Turkey that has only ever been washed with drinking water NEVER tap water, i've looked at it and it's better than new SS anchor SS chain!!!! I would just have trouble with bleeding Dorados and Mackeral on deck.
It's been withdrawn from sale for another season whilst he awaits his new boat to be built.
Always had a Captain on board...poor guy sleeps in the forepeak (air-con of course)!!!!!!
From a pure quality point of view pro skippered boats are the best of the lot. For the same reason bargains will be rare. Any owner rich enough to pay a skipper is rich enough to refuse to haggle.
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Old 09-02-2012, 20:06   #199
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

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From a pure quality point of view pro skippered boats are the best of the lot. For the same reason bargains will be rare. Any owner rich enough to pay a skipper is rich enough to refuse to haggle.
Absolutely and there's a lot of old money in these toys, however as you say there are bargains to be had comparative to here in Australia.
Nothing wrong with cruising the Med for a while, air con and solar are lacking but the heaters are in abundance.
Cheers.
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Old 09-02-2012, 20:25   #200
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

It is probably not your thing Lagoon but others might want an example of what I'm getting at. This boat was #1 on my Europe shortlist, is VAT unpaid and is still for sale. It appeals because it has both a proper mast AND a proper keel. That is rare on a Hylas.

1998 Hylas Mystic 46 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 09-02-2012, 20:34   #201
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

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It is probably not your thing Lagoon but others might want an example of what I'm getting at. This boat was #1 on my Europe shortlist, is VAT unpaid and is still for sale. It appeals because it has both a proper mast AND a proper keel. That is rare on a Hylas.

1998 Hylas Mystic 46 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
That's a nice boat, like the sheer and she looks well looked after, sail wardrobe is extensive very good!

Frank
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Old 09-02-2012, 22:08   #202
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

Hmmm. Just put a 55K bid on a 99K boat. The rejection should be good therapy. Once my "fantasy check" has bounced, I can get back to my usual routine. Normally when I put in a bid, it's based on the inverse ratio on the grass height in the cockpit.
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Old 09-02-2012, 22:19   #203
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

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Hmmm. Just put a 55K bid on a 99K boat. The rejection should be good therapy. Once my "fantasy check" has bounced, I can get back to my usual routine. Normally when I put in a bid, it's based on the inverse ratio on the grass height in the cockpit.
Well, the list price on the HR I talked about as OP went from 119K to 73K, and not sure what it sold for.

It was a premier yacht, recent and extensive upgrades with lots of new stuff like sails, and owned by a couple whose blog has a following of over 100,000 visitors a month.

You may have a good chance at getting it near your price, depending on how much the other party wants to sell.

Keep us informed.
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Old 09-02-2012, 22:48   #204
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

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Hmmm. Just put a 55K bid on a 99K boat. The rejection should be good therapy. Once my "fantasy check" has bounced, I can get back to my usual routine. Normally when I put in a bid, it's based on the inverse ratio on the grass height in the cockpit.
Don't give up. Call them once a week with an " I'm still here " thing. Maybe raise the offer a little.

That HR in this thread was an absolute steal at 79. Alex would have pumped at least 30 into it in the last two years. The sails are all almost new and have only done Spain - Antigua.

There's one out there with your name on it.
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:57   #205
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Try being cheeky on this one with a fast cash purchase... if you like it..
Never know till you try...
All they can say is Yes.... or FO.....
Olympic Adverture 47 Boats for sale Gibraltar, Olympic Used boat sales, Olympic Sailing Yachts For Sale 1976 Olympic - Apollo Duck
That's a good looking boat, even though it's more than double the price of others on Yachtworld. Good reason for a low ball offer.
Not quite what we're looking for but if we get to Gib it would be worth a look.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:05   #206
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

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We are now buying in Spain and will be able to stay for eighteen months, not have to pay VAT on the purchase because Australia is not in the EU.
I thought you could only stay 90 out of 180 days. There was that blog about illegal aliens in the Eurozone.
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:52   #207
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

Now I have a question... I'm enamored with the the boats of Reuel Parker. Fine boats, but he doesn't build very many of them. In fact, I know of only 3 recently for sale, of radically different sizes (a 42, a 55, and a 60 loa). How do I go about determining a fair offer for a boat like this? There aren't really any comparables out there for a 60 foot cold molded offshore capable boat with a draft of 4 feet, unless I've missed one somewhere. The 2010 42 has an asking of 150k, the 1992 55 is under contract with a final LISTING price of 124.9K, and the asking on the 1994 60 is 225k. So how do I determine a proper bid for the 60? I suppose I could check EU prices for a comp. Anyone have an idea what delivery costs to the Chesapeake Bay would be for a 60' EU boat? I can already hear someone saying "sail it back yourself", but they haven't seen my work schedule...
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Old 12-02-2012, 17:55   #208
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

it is all relative to one's perspective. I owned a boat that sunk during Hurricane Juan in 1985, while in her slip. I bought that boat brand new and recall that a new 34-37 foot good quality sailboat sold new for around $35,000 or so.
Imagine my sticker shock now that I am trying to get back into sailing and looking for a boat to buy. Used boats are selling for more than they cost when new. ( an example is an Island Packet 27, I have a brochure that lists a 1992 new one for $65,000 but try and buy a 1992 now and you will find ones in decent shape are selling for $69,000 and up)
Take a look at new boats you find even teeny tiny decent quality boats selling for well over $100,000. An example would be a Dana 24, Base price is $149,000. Or a lesser quality small boat, a Com-Pac 27 and see the Base price is around $110,000.

Now, I keep hearing how boat prices are very low right now but to an old guy like me who remembers what boats costs way back when, and suddenly they seem expensive. Throw in the fact that 25 year old boats are selling for more than they sold for when new and it seems crazy.

Yes, I know, continuous maintenance, repairs, refitting and upkeep on a boat is expensive but isn't that part of ownership? Should that make the price of the boat not only retain it's original cost value but actually increase in value?

Maybe, but I dunno. And factor in that a 25 year or older fiberglass boat is going to have some inherit glass problems such as blistering, core rot, delamination, etc and you get something that not only costs more used than it did when new, but it will also need lots of money spent to get it in new condition.

Just an observation here. Another observation, people are not buying because the economy sucks and people are reticent to spend money on anything that is not absolutely essential.
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Old 12-02-2012, 18:03   #209
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

You are forgetting inflation $36k in 1985 is $72k today. And many great boats are sub $50k in the used market like a the '01 Morris 28 Linda that just sold for $45k in Florida. Hate to think what that boat cost new as loaded as it is. 2001 Morris 28 Custom (Linda) Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 12-02-2012, 18:05   #210
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Re: Is the Market Really this Bad ?

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Imagine my sticker shock now that I am trying to get back into sailing and looking for a boat to buy. Used boats are selling for more than they cost when new. ( an example is an Island Packet 27, I have a brochure that lists a 1992 new one for $65,000 but try and buy a 1992 now and you will find ones in decent shape are selling for $69,000 and up)
Take a look at new boats you find even teeny tiny decent quality boats selling for well over $100,000. An example would be a Dana 24, Base price is $149,000. Or a lesser quality small boat, a Com-Pac 27 and see the Base price is around $110,000.
Keep looking around and do it with an open mind. First, nobody is paying the asking price on used boats, and even new boats are negotiable. Second, I'd much rather buy a much more capable and comfortable older 34 or 35-footer for $34,000-$35,000 than one of those twenty-somethings for more than $100,000. You can find some nice 30 footers for less than $20,000.
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