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Old 19-03-2019, 12:54   #16
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Re: Is the era of twin keelers past?

Another point to keep in mind is back in the days of peak bilge keel most fiberglass boats where (over)built with heavy layups, so the extra cost to Westerly and co of building a boat strong enough to dry out on its twin keels twice a day was probably minimal compared to their single-keeled sisters.


Given the lighter construction of modern AWBs, that's probably not the case any longer and building them strong enough to regularly dry out would entail significant extra costs, for example the twin keel RMs have an alloy space frame to take the keel loads...
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Old 19-03-2019, 13:15   #17
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Re: Is the era of twin keelers past?

We draw 3'8" with bilge keels. Yes we do give away a few degrees hard on the wind, but once you come off the wind then it doesn't matter as we can reach hull speed without too much trouble.

Round the cans on Sunday morning sailors don't buy bilge keelers, so they tend to be sailed by ma and pa couples, like us and the previous owners who enjoyed her up to their 75th birthdays. Skills vary as do the age of the sails, condition of the bottom paint and probably a big 3 bladed prop. Not to mention over loaded with stuff. Sort this out and they can be made to sail very well.

However, what we gain with bilge keels is access to tens of thousands of miles of Europe's Atlantic coast. We deliberately wanted a bilge keel yacht because we like gunk holing. It means quaint traditional harbours, shallow rivers or free sheltered bays to anchor in rather than expensive marinas or anchoring in exposed locations. The clubs drying grid is free to use. That compares to to over £400 for a lift out and back in for a boatyard.

This is Keyhaven, a river and protected estuary. The castle on the end dates from Henry V111. There is free electric and water on the jetty if you can get there for £12 a night. Sometimes they even collect it . The local yacht club welcomes visitors with free showers and pub food in the evenings when the bar opens. But fins or anyone with more than 4ft of draft will be anchored 1.5 miles down the harbour and have to crawl in through a narrow entrance over the bar at dead HW on a wing and a prayer.

Btw, the French do a nice range of sexy bilge keelers:

RM range - RM Yachts
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Old 19-03-2019, 13:40   #18
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Re: Is the era of twin keelers past?

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Originally Posted by Clivevon View Post
Hi Trekka. still wish I could have found a Solway.

Did you consider a Conway with purpose built beaching legs? 6ft draft though so you cant stand on the bottom alongside until the tide goes out...
No, I did not. Conways are great boats, with same deck and internal layout as Solway. But a big part of my Solway attraction was the lesser draft. On this bay that makes a big difference. My CSY has almost as deep a draft as a Conway. While you certainly can sail the Chesapeake on a 6ft draft, having done 25yrs with 3ft I am definitely aware of where I cannot go and short cuts I cannot take. If I was sailing in New England I would not care about draft.

————————————————————————-

Reading upstream I realize I missed the initial query of the thread. Where did the twins go as a design and class?

In the 70’s and early to mid 80’s they were very popular on this bay and east&south coastal US. But then the family that ran the importing dealership retired, Westerly, after coming out with some great new designs began faltering. The market changed with an upward trend in sizes as smaller boats had diminished market share partly due to vastly increased construction costs. 10 yrs after I bought my Centaur an equivalent size cost half again more, and up. The new importer let go after just a few years.

After the company went down and reorganized in the early-mid 90’s they made some choices that hurt their market here. One thing was stepping hard on anyone who put their info online. I had brochures and data sheets on everything built through the late 80’s. Started a list serve. Scanned the brochures and gave them to a fellow who started a website for owners and followers of the designs. The new company had it shut down claiming copyright infringement. Even went so far as trademarking “My Westerly”. Their lawyer letters were extremely hostile. And this about boats they no longer made.

So, if you were interested in a Catalina, Irwin, Westsail, etc etc etc you could find many websites with info about them and how owners used and modified them. But you could find precious little about Westerly’s. This definitely hurt resale of older boats. During the 90’s their values plunged on the bay. People who wondered about the design, and construction, worthiness, could not get info. They were considered oddballs, with rumors about being slow as slugs and failing structure (both false) rather than solid info.

Today in the US you sell one for whatever you can get, if anything. Lots got cut up and disposed.

Sad. They are great boats. And the twins were perfect for the Chesapeake, Bahamas, west coast of Florida, inside waters of NC.
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Old 19-03-2019, 14:04   #19
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Re: Is the era of twin keelers past?

The main advantages to them are shallower draught, ease of beaching, no need to dive or hire a slip to careen the hull, better downwind performance,, less rolling, and the downside is they cost a little more to build and they apparently do not point quite as well for going upwind.

They are still the preferred option for steel cruising boats in Australia for many people including me. Steel bilge keelers and long keelers get snapped up pretty quickly whenever they come up for sale where there are a lot of coral reefs and shallow bars across most rivers, as long as the prices are reasonable and the vessels are sound. Getting into a safe mangrove-lined creek haven is a biggie where cyclones are frequent during summer months.
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Old 19-03-2019, 14:06   #20
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Re: Is the era of twin keelers past?

The other thing that happened on Westerlies doorstep was a mass of marina building in the 1990s. Suddenly you could buy a fin, moor it in a nice walk ashore marina with posh loos, car parks and lots of staff to help you tie up. They are still building them, the latest is costing £100m on the river Dart. No idea on what the repayments are on that

However, there is no free lunch and once everyone was hooked on fin keels, we don't do long keels in Europe, then the prices had to rise to pay the man. Squeezed until the pips squeak, there was no choice for many but to pay up. £4500 in the marina next to us for a 9m yacht. Meanwhile with orders for bilge keelers drying up firms moved to follow the demand for fin keeled yachts, before many of the UK builders giving up completely. Difficult for small firms to compete with the likes of Bavaria when they produce 3000 boats a year, never mind Beneteau and Jeanneau.
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Old 19-03-2019, 14:12   #21
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Re: Is the era of twin keelers past?

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Is the era of twin keelers past? In the 80th and 90th of the previous century twin/bilge keelers where very popular, especially, in the UK. I'm still facinated with this concept and the later built bilge keelers proved to be not more worse than fin keelers. Why this concept died a silent dead?

….....because there is plenty of marinas this days. Britons did not have one single marina until 80s, and because high tides they simply grounded boats on the muddy rivers, creeks or in harbours so you needed twin keels, same go for most of western Europe. I think that in 70s and 80s communist Yugoslavia had more marinas then most western countries put together at that time.
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Old 19-03-2019, 14:44   #22
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Re: Is the era of twin keelers past?

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….....because there is plenty of marinas this days. Britons did not have one single marina until 80s, and because high tides they simply grounded boats on the muddy rivers, creeks or in harbours so you needed twin keels, same go for most of western Europe. I think that in 70s and 80s communist Yugoslavia had more marinas then most western countries put together at that time.
Gruz: Your answer presents the tipping point in bilge keeler popularity. Form follows function and your summation has the clarity of accuracy. I vote your answer as #1 to OP's question.
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Old 20-03-2019, 05:07   #23
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Re: Is the era of twin keelers past?

I'm interested to find a nicely outfitted UK Hunter 26 or 27

A nice read, https://uk.boats.com/reviews/8-of-th...ailing-yachts/
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Old 21-03-2019, 04:19   #24
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Re: Is the era of twin keelers past?

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I'm interested to find a nicely outfitted UK Hunter 26 or 27

A nice read, https://uk.boats.com/reviews/8-of-th...ailing-yachts/
Lots of the Hunter 26/27s were sold as sailaway packages, leaving the owner to fit out the interior, electrics and add equipment. Therefore quality varies.

I would also include the Westerly's in any search along with the Sadlers and smaller Moodys. The other interesting option in this size range is the Gibseas with lifting keels. They played around with the model numbers a bit, so 76 and 77, then numbers like 242, 262 and 282.
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Old 21-03-2019, 09:51   #25
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Re: Is the era of twin keelers past?

I really like the Moody S31 but I am not the only one this reflects in the still high price they sell and put them out of my budget.
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Old 21-03-2019, 10:09   #26
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Re: Is the era of twin keelers past?

Not sure they are still around, but there were some ex charter S31 in the Med, probably Greece, for sale about £15,000. That's a huge difference on the UK price.

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Old 21-03-2019, 10:17   #27
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Re: Is the era of twin keelers past?

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Well in spite of everything said here this is what my next boat will be.. Twin Keel and Ketch rigged. [emoji3]
From a cruising perspective I like the idea, it all comes down to what you want from a boat.
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Old 21-03-2019, 13:19   #28
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Re: Is the era of twin keelers past?

Ketch. Love the idea for a bigger bigger boat, but KISS says one mast, one sail, one set of lines for me. And when there's just a couple of hours of daylight left, or one slip empty at the marina, I'd rather have just one keel with good lift, so I can point 5-10 degrees higher and maybe get in ahead of the other guy.

Then again, where you sail makes the choice of keels, boards, or foils a very individual thing.
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Old 21-03-2019, 13:35   #29
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pirate Re: Is the era of twin keelers past?

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Ketch. Love the idea for a bigger bigger boat, but KISS says one mast, one sail, one set of lines for me. And when there's just a couple of hours of daylight left, or one slip empty at the marina, I'd rather have just one keel with good lift, so I can point 5-10 degrees higher and maybe get in ahead of the other guy.

Then again, where you sail makes the choice of keels, boards, or foils a very individual thing.
Buga pointing.. I'll just start the BMC engine and race you in..
One can take the 'Purist' stuff only so far.. after 50..
Forget it..
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Old 21-03-2019, 15:02   #30
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Re: Is the era of twin keelers past?

Hello:

I own 2 Westerly Nomad bilge keelers. One is a retirement project and one I campaign out of Rye, NH. I can tell you from experience that there are many advantages to my twin keeled Nomads. Chief among them is a great seaworthy boat with shallow draft. I keep my Nomad Maggie on her trailer with the mast up and ramp launch her. Takes about 20 minutes for me and my son. At 22 feet my Nomads have the room of a Coleman family tent and almost 6 foot of headroom. Being a skinny water boat, the external cast iron keels make taking the ground by accident or design painless. The dream besides coastal sailing is to tow her down to Florida for the winter and potter around in the sun whenever I like. I can tell you that the suit of sails she came with don't work well in light winds. They were designed for the North sea. I have outfitted with large light air headsails and she will reach near hull speed in fresh winds. She also is very stiff and has a very sea kindly motion with her 33% ballast.
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