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Old 26-08-2014, 17:17   #46
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Re: Is It Worth It?

Well, double skinning isn't so much a big deal. Many wooden designs already have frames, you could just put foam blocks in the hull and put in ceiling. That would prevent the need to seal your ceiling, but still give you a bouyant void.
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Old 26-08-2014, 17:22   #47
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Re: Is It Worth It?

Okay, I think I've found your boat!
Cheap, relatively good headroom (Sorry, guy, you'll have to get rid of your 5-inch pumps) and a good cruising boat:
Voila!: Rawson 30 Sailboat - General Information | YachtPals.com
They make a pilothouse version as well, though I wouldn't count on finding one of those right off the bat.
....and for positive buoyancy, just string together a bunch of empty plastic milk or water jugs and shove them in every available closet space.
P.S. don't bring too many clothes or other knickknacks.
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Old 26-08-2014, 17:30   #48
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Re: Is It Worth It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Double skin and plenty of foam will limit the interior height, right?

Keelers are basically self-righting, much as we all know many do not.

Woodvales are self righting allright though. They have the right standing height too, if you are willing to sit down.

Severns and Trents are self righting too. But they somehow fail to fail your power range acid test.

Sorry mate, but you are making lists of requirements that seem to show you are not reading thru what posters are telling you.

Look at the boats that surround you then draw some conclusions, this will save you heaps of academic discussions.

Cheers,
b.
Also after making the unsinkable 30 footer I'd like to see the shower space for a 6'6" guy...

BrokenSailor - People are really trying to respond and help but even after a few weeks of posting and engaging you still seem to be all over the map about requirements and short term actions.

You've been everwhere from 14 foot Potters to 40+ footers.

Most problem solving starts with divergent thinking, all idea on the table. Requirements and resources are discussed. Reality sets in and then convergent dialog starts where a decision is made.

I can tell you that if you want to get on the water in this case you will

- Not build a boat
- Not go for an unobtanium boat
- Limit your boats to what you can reasonably afford and more importantly maintain
- This puts you back in the sub-30 foot plastic boat range and likely sub 27 foot

You can live on this boat, not comfortable but you have stated you live in one room now.

As to how to actually do that - go read the whole living on $500 thread. Go read about 90% of the posts that SailorChick makes - She is the gold standard around here for living cheaply on a boat.

Then get away from you computer and go near the water and kick some tires. It appears you haven't been to a marina or anywhere yet.

It is hard, I find many marinas user unfriendly, but try to walk the docks and talk to a few folks.

Then get on with it!
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Old 26-08-2014, 17:32   #49
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Re: Is It Worth It?

Un-sinkable boats have been built for many years, remember the Boston Whaler commercials many years ago? They used to cut one in pieces and all the pieces would float. But even a Whaler can be sunk if over loaded with Scallops. Used to bee many years ago that the un-stallable airplane design was sought, but even they could be stalled if loaded out of CG.
If your worried about sinking, get a life raft, unsinkable mono hulls may be atainable, but surely they have to give up a lot to have all that buoyancy either in ballast or storage.
Multis I assume the rules there are different, but they are out of my financial reach
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Old 26-08-2014, 18:47   #50
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Re: Is It Worth It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayana42 View Post
Look at E-Tap boats. Unsinkable. But quite expensive.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The link to the boat I was asking about is a E-Tap 30 that they are asking $13,000.00 for it. It is sitting in Cancun Mexico right now. It looks like the wood work needs some TLC.
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Old 26-08-2014, 19:14   #51
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Re: Is It Worth It?

Retired people are most likely to die early from poor eating and lack of exercise. Living on a boat and learning to look after it is very likely going to lengthen your lifespan.

IMO if its a good moderate cost boat and got a motor that can do 500 miles then it can be sunk. I think you mean is "a boat not easily sunk by wave action."

Many thousand, of all types, are successfully living aboard sinkable boats. Very few on unsinkable boats.

I say forget the going off-shore at this stage. More important is that you first learn to turn off toilet valves before getting into rough water and learn how to look after your shaft seals, water intakes, bilge pumps, batteries, oil changes etc.
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Old 27-08-2014, 00:27   #52
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Re: Is It Worth It?

I understand the concern about a huge wave hitting you out in the middle of the ocean 100 miles from nowhere, but c'mon, let's think about this a moment. How many personal sailing vessels are lost each year to 'rogue waves'? Though I don't have figures to back this up, I would say that it is very few. A couple sailing from the US west coast to the US Virgin Islands was hit by a large wave in a storm and it damaged their boat beyond repair, BUT they made it to port and returned to the States. Was this a 'ROGUE' wave, probably NOT. Most boats lost at sea are lost because of a SERIES of events that are compounded by poor judgement or planning, NOT a rogue wave. The documentary you watched was sensationalizing the very existence of 'ROGUE WAVES'. They are, in fact, VERY rare and generally associated with times and locations where you are best to avoid any way. (Hint: North Atlantic in November).

There is a reason why those who make the 'Puddle Jump' do it, generally, from March to May. Weather! You are more likely to be becalmed than encounter serious wind and waves while making the 'Jump'. I've never done the trip, and can only speak about what I have read, so take it as you wish, but I think, if you read more you will find that the perfect boat for you is the one that you can afford to buy, sail and actually use.

If you place impossible requirements on your boat, you may as well select the USS Enterprise (CV65) as your boat of choice because it will be equally unattainable.

I really think that the requirements that you are setting for a boat on your budget are not feasible. At some point a person has to make a decision as to whether they really want to take the risk of sailing beyond sight of the shoreline or not. I am not flushed with cash either, and I have told my wife that I can't afford to run an AC unit on a sailboat to keep it 70 degrees and 35% humidity while we are sitting at anchor in the Bay of Virgins in Fatu Hiva, Marquesas. It just ain't happenin'.

You need to figure out what is important to you, Sailing or dreaming about sailing. I, for one, plan on sailing. PERIOD! The boat hasn't been chosen, and the kitty isn't big enough yet, but its growing and I'm still investigating the perfect, or in reality, the best boat I can afford.

Pretty sure the Westsail 32 is my boat, but we will see.

P.S. A boat you can't stand up in, on the water, making way and pointed in the direction you want to go is better than a boat you can't afford any day...

P.P.S Being 5'7" has some advantages!
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Old 27-08-2014, 05:31   #53
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Re: Is It Worth It?

Unsink-ability can be retrofited into most any hull. Think what the Pardeys did with that automated air blisters systems.

And a couple of watertight bulkheads go a long way.

None of which such a great idea in a 30'er.

b.
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Old 27-08-2014, 15:15   #54
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Re: Is It Worth It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Also after making the unsinkable 30 footer I'd like to see the shower space for a 6'6" guy...

BrokenSailor - People are really trying to respond and help but even after a few weeks of posting and engaging you still seem to be all over the map about requirements and short term actions.

You've been everwhere from 14 foot Potters to 40+ footers.

Most problem solving starts with divergent thinking, all idea on the table. Requirements and resources are discussed. Reality sets in and then convergent dialog starts where a decision is made.

I can tell you that if you want to get on the water in this case you will

- Not build a boat
- Not go for an unobtanium boat
- Limit your boats to what you can reasonably afford and more importantly maintain
- This puts you back in the sub-30 foot plastic boat range and likely sub 27 foot

You can live on this boat, not comfortable but you have stated you live in one room now.

As to how to actually do that - go read the whole living on $500 thread. Go read about 90% of the posts that SailorChick makes - She is the gold standard around here for living cheaply on a boat.

Then get away from you computer and go near the water and kick some tires. It appears you haven't been to a marina or anywhere yet.

It is hard, I find many marinas user unfriendly, but try to walk the docks and talk to a few folks.

Then get on with it!
I guess I need to explain a little on my choices of requirement and also say they are not set in stone by a long shot. The reason I have been all over the place is because I am learning about sailboats from you guys. The more I learn the more I have to compromise when it comes to getting a boat. This is changing the over all requirements but the places I want to go with this boat has not changed. I do not plan on going sailing across oceans any time soon after first getting a boat.

1. Unsinkable and self righting
This is a safety issue that the boat rights itself in case of a knock down or a bad wave hit to the side. Being positively buoyant even when swamped might not only save your life it might even save your boat and your belonging too since it stays afloat instead of sinking to the bottom.
2. 30 feet LOA preferred but longer boat possible if needed to match all requirements
The 30 feet or shorter preferred came from listening to you all on here when it come to cost and fees. Example: All boaters entering The Bahamas are required to pay an entry fee.
a) For boats up to 30', the fee is $150.00
b) For boats over 30', the fee is $300.00
Taken from the Bahama website Docking fees and other fees are by the foot so trying to keep the boat under 30 feet is going to save me money in the long run.
3. Shoal draft under 5 feet.
This was to be able to go in the ICW of the Tennessee River and be able to cut across Florida instead of around it if I wanted too and to be able to find anchorage in places a full time deep draft boat can't not go. I had dropped the being able to beach the boat as a requirement because you all made it clear it was limiting me to a coastal only boat.
4. Offshore passage making capable.
This is for later on so I can travel and see some of the world that I would like to visit after I have enough knowledge and skill to sail across oceans during the right time of year.
5. At least 500 NM range on the inboard Diesel motor.
I came up with this figure from plotting a course from the Crooked Creek Marina to the Gulf of Mexico in Mobile, AL. According to the charts it is about 410 NMi from here to there and adding an eighteen percent reserve range put it at 500 NMi. I do not know how many places there are on the Tennessee River Waterway from here to the gulf for fuel stops so I was trying to make it possible to go from point A to point B without having to stop for fuel and without having to clutter up the decks with "Jerry" cans.

6. Tall standing height cabin, over 6'6" with pilot house is preferred.
Having a cabin I can stand up in that I can afford to get would be preferred but I know I am gong to have to compromise on just about any manufactured boat that I can afford to buy and most that have that tall of a cabin are well out of my price range for now.

7. Comfortable live board with shower, head, AC/heating unit and water maker onboard.
The shower is optional but would be nice to have onboard and I sure wouldn't have room for a tub or the water it would take to fill it to be able to use it.

So that is why I choose the requirements I did. Right now I am saving my money and just looking at the different designs that would best fit my wants and needs for where I want to be able to go. By asking questions and finding out what is a good deal and what is not, I am learning for when i have the money in hand to buy my boat. I have not visited the marina where they do the Learn at the Helm sailing lessons yet because they have not answered my inquiry yet and I don't have a phone number for them at this time. I also have a couple of medical issues that has come up that have to be taken care of before I can do much right now. At this time it looks like I might be having my knee replacements sooner than expected especially on my right knee. I am hoping that my resent medical problem is not going to throw a monkey wrench into my dreams of sailing. I will know more after Sept 8th.
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Old 27-08-2014, 15:31   #55
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Re: Is It Worth It?

Yer looking at an AS29, you can beach it. I wouldn't cross oceans with it, it would be fine for the America's and Caribbean
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Old 27-08-2014, 17:21   #56
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Re: Is It Worth It?

I don't imagine the middle of Tennessee is "boating central", but just get out there and start making appointments to start seeing the boats that are for sale in your area. Experiential learning is important.
Get Don Casey's books, especially Inspecting the Old (Aging?) Sailboat and get some practice in "vetting" sailboats.
When you've boarded a couple of "NameYourBrand" boats and you consistently hit your head going down the companionway, even though the boat ticks off all the right boxes on your checklist, you'll know to start looking elsewhere.
Go above 30 feet, as a general rule for comfort and just give the Bahamians an extra $150 for when you go there.
There are good boats to be had at a good price.
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Old 27-08-2014, 17:36   #57
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Re: Is It Worth It?

Explaining everything is fine but the point is to listen to the answers.

Boats are real things.

No way to get one if not willing to accept the facts and the compromises.

Boats sink.

Also the unsinkable ones.

They are supposed to come back if they have a keel.

Some do not.

Range on engine is extended by carrying jerry cans.

Cabin height is addressed by sitting down.

And so on and so forth.

Face it. Get it. Use it.

If you keep on splitting hairs, you are not getting any closer to sailing a boat.

Good luck, have fun,
b.
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Old 31-08-2014, 16:23   #58
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Re: Is It Worth It?

I have two questions right now. First is the Westerly Konsort Duo 29 good for crossing oceans and the second question is there a way to raise and lower this mast on the go so to speak or can it be replaced by some type of telescoping mast? The reason I am asking about the mast is on the ICW Loop there is a bridge that has to be cleared that has a 19.1 feet clearance that the boat would have to go under if I want to ever use that loop instead motoring upstream 410 plus NMi. There is one for sale here in TN right now but I am just trying to narrow down options for later after I have saved up. And thank you all for your input and I am listing and learning from you all. These recent medical issues has me at a stand still right now on going somewhere to view boats in person right now. I'm possibly looking at two or three surgeries in the coming months and that is keeping me grounded at the moment.
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Old 31-08-2014, 16:39   #59
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Re: Is It Worth It?

When you say crossing oceans, which ones were you thinking of and at what time of year? Will a Consort duo cross to the Bahamas in the summer? sure.

If you want to be unsinkable then follow Roger Taylors series of videos and he creates he second yacht for ocean sailing:

The Making of Mingming II - Part 3 - YouTube
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Old 31-08-2014, 19:49   #60
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Re: Is It Worth It?

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When you say crossing oceans, which ones were you thinking of and at what time of year? Will a Consort duo cross to the Bahamas in the summer? sure.

If you want to be unsinkable then follow Roger Taylors series of videos and he creates he second yacht for ocean sailing:

The Making of Mingming II - Part 3 - YouTube
Time of year will very depending on the best time of year to be sailing to where I want to go. I am not about to sail to an area that is in the middle of their hurricane season that is for sure. I want to be as far away from them as I can when they are out and about. Besides the ICW of the US and the coastal waters of the gulf and eastern seaboard there are three main places that I want to visit on a boat, Hawaii, Eagle River AK, and Beerwah, Queensland Australia.

Those last three will be well after getting to know the boat and sailing for a long while. I figured sailing the "America's Great Loop" will be a good start on learning to sail especially if I find a boat around here that is on the loop to start with like this one I found that is on Pickwick Lake TN. 1987 Westerly Konsort Duo 29 - Boats.com

Right now I am just trying to mark off any boat style that will now fulfill my goals. If the mast can be lowered and the over all height of the boat can clear under 15'6" I will not have to take the long way around on the upper part of the loop. Say I did find the proper boat that is on the loop near here that I can buy, I would want to sail south to the Gulf of Mexico then head east along the coast to the Lake Okeechobee Waterway to Port St Lucie then up the coast to the Hudson river and the Great Lakes. Then head back south at the windy city back to Tennessee. By then I'll have around 5600 miles in the boat with both motoring and sailing and should know how what ever boat I get is going to somewhat act.

P.S. That boat in the link has larger tanks than the standard size listed on the saildata site. It list the water tanks as 100 gallons and the fuel tanks at 50 gallons and does not even mention a holding tank. The one in the link has a two water tanks totaling 150 gallons and a 60 gallon fuel tank. It also has a 35 gallon plastic holding tank too.
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