Is it OK resell my Survey?

[farm sail]

Originally Posted by Viking Sailor

Works such as a survey are automatically copyrighted:

"In 1989 the United States enacted the Berne Convention Implementation Act, amending the 1976 Copyright Act to conform to most of the provisions of the Berne Convention. As a result, the use of copyright notices has become optional to claim copyright, because the Berne Convention makes copyright automatic."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright

That may prevent you from making and selling copies of said survey but just like a used book if you sell the original, copyright has no claim

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The only issue is who owns the copyright

This is a non-issue which is why the thread is silly. We know who own the copyright. First Sale Doctrine exhausts their copyright control over it once the copy has been legally purchased. The purchaser can do whatever he wants with it short over making copies of it and selling them.

[geoarch9]

Employer–employee relationship under agency law

If a work is created by an employee,
part 1 of the copyright code’s definition of a work made for hire applies. To help determine who is an employee, the Supreme Court in CCNV v. Reid identified certain factors that characterize an "employer-employee" relationship as defined by agency law:

1. Control by the employer over the work (e.g., the employer may determine how the work is done, has the work done at the employer's location, and provides equipment or other means to create work)
2. Control by employer over the employee (e.g., the employer controls the employee's schedule in creating work, has the right to have the employee perform other assignments, determines the method of payment, and/or has the right to hire the employee's assistants)
3. Status and conduct of employer (e.g., the employer is in business to produce such works, provides the employee with benefits, and/or withholds tax from the employee’s payment)

The issue is when is someone an employee. As stated above the definition and requirements are more involved. When you go to your doctor, you can say you are hiring him to provide you with medical services, but he is not your employee. He is a self employed medical professional licensed in the state that he works to provide these services to provide for the health, safety and welfare of his patients. The same can be said for an independent surveyor. You do not automatically own intellectual property, just because you hire a professional to provide you a service. However, if that same doctor leaves private practice and accepts a position with a medical research corp. who pays him salary or wages and manages his benefits and taxes, he would be an employee and any intellectual property most likely would belong to the corp.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Unless US copyright law is different than other common law jurisdictions the original creator own the copyright. My experience with copyright law is that it is irrelevant who commissioned the work. The copyright is vested with the one who does the creating.

Hopefully there is nothing "Creative" in a survey report.

It is simply a paid observational report (with no warrantable opinion) that also has no inherent value outside that particular vessel.

So ethically, I believe the customer does have the right to share that report with anyone else for whatever reason that might benefit him.

[Factor]

What does the OP do for a living?

[boatpoker]

Several times a year I am asked to survey a vessel that I had already recently surveyed. I always inform the new (potential) client that I had just surveyed the vessel and they may wish to contact my previous client and purchase the survey at a significant discount.

I will not discuss the survey with the new guy as my contract is with the first client.

I sold my service (survey) to someone. As far as I am concerned they paid for it , it belongs to them and they can do what they like with it.

If the deal had fallen through due to my survey findings ... better the second guy finds out for half price.

[Pelagic]

That is exactly how it should be:thumbup:

[dohenyboy]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

My question would be "if I sell my survey, do I become the legal recourse for the buyer in the event of a problem with the survey?". Regardless of exclusive use language, unless the surveyor has a crap contract their only obligation is between the surveyor and their initial client. The initial client may be able to go back to the surveyor if something got missed (good luck with that, but at least a contract exists).

If the secondary buyer of the survey finds something the surveyor missed the exclusive use language in the survey will likely protect the surveyor from a claim from the secondary purchaser. That is really the whole point in exclusive use language in pretty much all professional services work product, and is the reason that the language is in the document itself, not in the contract. It is there to protect the service provider from claims by third parties with whom the professional has no contract.

So, if you sell the survey what representations are you making as to completeness, accuracy, and suitability for purpose? I'd be more concerned about whether or not I was opening myself up to liability than whether or not the surveyor might get annoyed.

Yes, this is the whole point of the "exclusive use" provision. The surveyor wants to limit the universe of people to whom he owes a duty, the breach of which he would face legal liability.
So, you can sell the document to anyone. The buyer might not be able to sue the surveyor if he relied on the survey and suffered damage as a result.


Why can't things remain where i carelessly left them?

[Pelagic]

I have never heard of a surveyor being successfully sued for giving an inaccurate survey.

[meirriba]

I am a surveyor.
I would never do a survey before the client have signed formal offer quotation to which I attach a document detailing terms & conditions under which I perform my work.
This document does not include any limitation on re-use or re-sell of the report.
However - I would never discuss the report with a subsequent report "owner", nor I feel responsible for any inaccuracies or negligence towards such a person. My sole responsibility is towards the person who hired me to do the survey.
As to quality: I usually spend a full day going over all systems of the boat (all is all: electricity, pumps, engine, deck equipment, sails & lines, plumbing, woodwork, safety, etc.) on the next day we do sea-trial and then lift the boat to check underwater systems and hull (including humidity check).
It takes at least 4 hours to compile a report. The cost I charge is the area of the boat in feet (LOA x beam) in €. If anyone believes it is overcharge he may do the work himself...
I would never claim that I am able to discover all hidden faults of a vessel. On the other hand - I believe that I can find any deal breaker and this is what a client needs.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by meirriba

I am a surveyor.
.... . My sole responsibility is towards the person who hired me to dao the survey....
.

Can you clarify.....what (Legally) is that responsibility?

[David_Old_Jersey]

What you should do and what you can do are seperate matters.

If someone wanted to give me money to share a survey I would have no qualms in accepting.....but in the interests of fair disclosure, I also sold both of my grandmothers on eBay :-) (as seen, no surveys).

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

What you should do and what you can do are seperate matters.

....

+1. Legalities aside, I view a survey as work for hire and the end product which I paid for is my property that I can do with as I please. Unless I had made an explicit agreement with the surveyor to the contrary. Realistically, even if you did violate such an agreement, no one is going to court over a few hundred dollars.

Personally, I would not purchase an old survey to save myself a small amount of money. Its just not a good value: its dated, it was not done under my direction, I didnt chose the surveyor, and I have no recourse if it turns out to be rubbish.


Sent from my GT-P5110 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[colemj]

One of the key aspects of a survey is being present and involved while the survey is going on - to learn, discover, and to guide (you want to make sure that some of the stuff written in the report reflects what you need to complete the purchase/insurance). No way would I just buy a survey to save a couple of bucks.

Mark

[SURV69]

So, in essense, a surveyor's work(and mistakes), will live on forever, along with the liability, through owner, after owner, after owner, until the boat is ground up or the surveyor dies?