Is a Skeg Necessary without an Inboard and with a Transom-Hung Rudder ?

[BudgieSmuggler]

At sea....... your thoughts of the skeg being there for a rudder seems pretty logical, especially as the skeg is so long. i think that your answer is probably correct & thanks for all your input. i think i will compromise and leave the rudder on the transom and remove the skeg. this skeg cant be THAT heavy,can it? i have to slip the boat in a few weeks to remove all the through the hull fittings ( if you could see some of the ridiculous things that have been done to this poor boat, you`d understand my mistrust with the thru hull fittings!!) & clean up/check & antifoul the boat. i cant afford to slip the boat for more than a day or two. do i just undo the two skeg bolts & SAFELY wiggle it free!!!!! ha ha, did`nt think it would be that simple,damn it. is that basically what i do though? do they bolt & sikaflex things like this or do they tend to fair up the joints of keels & skegs by glassing over the joints? at worst can i cut the skeg off with an angle grinder/cutting disc and fair it up after? thanks to everyone for their help, you`ve been most kind with your time.

[Wand]

Well, remember it's only a guess until it's slipped.

But whatever, I'd proceed with caution wiht this one. I'd abandon plans of action in the coming slipping and use the time instead to gather information, take heaps of measurements and pics and enlist as many opinions as I could muster in the yard.

And if it's like most boatyards, you won't have trouble getting opinions.

Then I'd put it back in the water and think very slowly and very carefully about the options for the skeg and rudder - and even including whether it's worth keeping at all. That may sound harsh but it's better to look at the whole picture before the spending starts.

[ozskipper]

Ok I will bite. Heres my take on it.

The boat originally had a skeg hung rudder.
An owner wanted a nacelle based outboard so he moved the rudder to the transom but left the skeg. ( Note I said an owner not a shipright)
Over the years the skeg has been damaged and knocked off centre some how (okay so thats a big maybe)

So now you have a boat with three foil shapes under water one of which is damaged. Based on the info you have provided, I would put a schooner on it!! Not a slab though. ( BTW a schooner is a measurement of beer down here. I am not gambling a yacht )

Cheers
Oz

[BudgieSmuggler]

thanks a lot everyone, i`m now armed with some info and ideas for when i slip the boat. i will then at least, think twice and act once. i will take lots of measurements and photos and will let you know how i go. might even make another drawing for you all !!!! thanks again

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by BudgieSmuggler

thanks a lot everyone, i`m now armed with some info and ideas for when i slip the boat. i will then at least, think twice and act once. i will take lots of measurements and photos and will let you know how i go. might even make another drawing for you all !!!! thanks again

G'Day Smuggler,

Where and when are you planning to slip the boat? Ann and I will be in the Pittwater area for some time to come, and I'd be happy to come and give yet another "wise opinion" when you have her out of the water.

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Morning Cove, NSW, Oz

[BudgieSmuggler]

that`s a nice offer Jim Cate....but i`m working on a very tight budget.... have to gather antifoul, tools, any materials that i may need, pay bills etc. before i slip.... it may be another 6 weeks or more. financially, i have to take things a day at a time. will be slipping the boat in the brisbane waters, maybe booker bay.

[Wand]

Ok, I have an interesting but unverified update. Spoke to a bloke who says that there was an Adams 24 design available in the '70s for cold-molded construction.

I had assumed yours was just another of the ubiquitous glass 20-odd footers but if the construction is as above then you have something much superior imo (and rare). And something well worth returning to its original configuration.

I'd suggest spending a day in the library going through that era's Australian Seacraft magazines. It's highly likely the design was advertised there and maybe they even test drove one.

Re slipping, are there no careening poles or walls or other structures in Broken Bay that you can lean the boat against and use the low tide time to do some investigations?

Environmental law says we can no longer antifoul by careening but jobs like inspections and changing zincs and thru-hull work etc can still be done on the cheap that way. Have a look around for the options.

[BudgieSmuggler]

At sea..... that is very interesting indeed. i have a lot of experience with fibreglass and glass moulds... BUT absolutely have NO IDEA of what cold moulding is !!!!! i must say though, you seem very enthusiastic at the thought of my boat possibly being `cold moulded`.... but my luck of late, (wealth to ruins and all that) tells me "i`m not that lucky" !!!... i must say that my boat looks like a typical fibreglass moulding. the previous owner put a vent in the roof and i found the piece he cut out. it`s a 4 inch circle of what looks to me like ply glassed either side. looking at this piece, i must say that it has been beautifully laid up.... very tight...absolutely no air....about three quarters of an inch thick and i`m in admiration of the layup. but... that is the deck. i dont think the hull is the same, i think the hull is solid glass. on the roof & deck, all the corners revert back to solid glass as if the ply was laid up with the glass inside a female mould. maybe my boat is a fibreglass copy of the cold moulded adams 24 that you mention. i really appreciate you asking around, as it really is quite upsetting for me not knowing any history of my boat... my present financial situation is telling me that i am going to have a very long term affair living on her.......and i really do want a "love, hate" relationship with her & not just a "hate, hate" one !!! regarding the carreenig poles.... in NSW one is`nt allowed to liveaboard. i`ve spoken with the maritime officer here and explained to him that i have just bought the boat and that i will be travelling into queensland with the winter winds. he was very understanding & in return i`m trying to keep a VERY low profile and dont want to be seen by anyone, resting on poles. that may sound very timid of me to most people, but i`m also suffering from severe depression due to my total loss of financial security of late.. it stops me doing things that most people would`nt think twice of doing. hence the slip.

[Wand]

I think the editor of Seacaft in the '70s was Graeme Andrews. He now writes for Afloat and would know (if anyone does) about the Adams 24. He's a maritime history buff too so I don't think he'd mind fielding a query from you on this issue. He'd be cotactable through the Afloat site here: AFLOAT Magazine March 2011

[BudgieSmuggler]

thanks At sea for the info on Graeme Andrews, i`ve sent an email off, i hope he gets it. I have been spending the last week replacing ALL of the screws/nuts & bolts/fittings etc. that the previous owner added. he must have received a drill for his birthday & loved drilling holes, but did`nt believe in any form of sealant let alone sikaflex. it`s chinese torture in here with the drips. a major job on my own & needs lots of ingenuity to hold nuts on the inside while i`m outside undoing the bolts/screws!!

[BudgieSmuggler]

UPDATE on my Adams 24.....Hi all.. Some photos in monohull section on the slip. have slipped the boat this last weekend and have found many surprises. Firstly i cut 500mm off the skeg that was only 150mm in front of the motor... secondly i cut 250mm off the rudder which was slightly deeper than the keel. thirdly...EVERYONE at the marina and all the local yachties said "my God, that is one hell of a serious keel !!!!" I looked at it and thought "oh no, is that why i can only get 2.5 knots out of her with motor or sail" !!!!! I felt like cutting the keel off and building bilge keels, but i did`nt. If you look carefully at the picture of the keel you will see where the original "normal" fin keel flaired into the belly... in fact, i do believe that this boat was modified with a FULL keel as behind the keel under the belly between the keel and the skeg(which did hold a inboard rudder) are markings where a full keel might have been.this boat was obviously an adams racer that has been modified for very serious cruising. Anyway, i got the antifoul on (was`nt badly fouled at all) and half halfheartedly put the boat back in the water this morning..... and well.... i was so pleasantly surprised when under motor, i did 5 knots at just over half throttle. I just had to take it for a sail. I put my very small foresail and small mainsail on as the larger sails were totally unmanageable before the slip due to excessive healing without any speed of forward motion. well, with only 5 knots of wind, the boat laid very level and actually did 4 knots. i was totally flabergasted as with the larger sails on i may just have got full hull speed with only 5 knots of wind !!!..... I`m writing this as happy as Larry and so over the moon, wondering what the potential is with higher winds!! and with a battleship keel. the boat did`nt heel more than a very few degrees today and i certainly came back with a smirk on my face after all the worrying i`ve been through. I`m so grateful to all that have contributed with your advice and ideas... THANK YOU... Rob

[Wand]

Onya, now you have a boat. BTW, did Graeme Andrews ever get back to you?

[BudgieSmuggler]

At sea.. yes, Graeme did get back to me... put me onto someone else.. gotta check out the seacraft mags in the museum. thanks personally for your help At sea, you`ve been great. ....It`s very strange, modifications.....every action has a reaction ... at anchor tonight, i notice a different rolling action when the ferry goes past....not worse, just different!! cant wait to get some training hours on my "new" boat and work my way up to the big sails.... by the way, EVERYTHING about the boat has changed... The steering is so much more responsive... It does`nt want to stall when tacking.....The helm`s so much lighter...it sails closer to the wind, it just feels like a light boat ant not like a barge.. I did some pretty drastic things on the slip and suppose i was lucky too.... No doubt the previous owner jumped for joy when he sold this boat to me `sight unseen` as he would have had the boat for years doing 2.5 knots.. he should`ve got onto this forum and asked for help and advice !! thanks again Rob