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daletournier · 09-10-2016, 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by n13L5

Been looking for a good passage making boat, but many factors I don't know.

This one is in good shape and well equipped, well furnished and looks clean.

A survey will show if everything is right with it,

but meanwhile, I'm trying to find out if a Bavaria boat hull is good and strong enough for say, sailing to and all around NZ, for example...

Im not sure you will get a satifactory answer on this forum or elsewhere.
Im in the market for another boat and have been researching heavily. Im fairly obsessive by nature and have a trades background.
Im finding it very difficult to fliter fact from fiction. Most opnions regarding modern boats are secondhand versions at best, often from people with very little technical knowledge and ingrained biases.
What i do know is that i see Barvarias ,as well as other major brands in anchorages throughout my travels and they got there the same way i did. I also believe that no company in our modern world stays in business if they continually fail to produce a good product, a free market dosent allow this.
Also keep this in mind, just because someone as been living a cruising life for many years dosent mean he/she is an expert regarding boat design and/or boat construction, he/she may have strong biases supported by little, i witness this regularly.

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crankysailor · 10-10-2016, 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by daletournier

What i do know is that i see Barvarias ,as well as other major brands in anchorages throughout my travels and they got there the same way i did.

Well.. true. But did you go thru force 7 winds or more and 10ft swell or higher for a week or even longer to get there?

Most of us (thank goodness) don't sail in rough conditions. The question is .. if you get caught someday, do you believe your boat will take care of you?

Nowadays forecasts are of an amazing quality and a coastal sailor without a death wish can probably sail his or her whole life without ever encountering rough conditions. Then you can probably relax your requirements and give comfort and value a higher score in a boat buying decision. I wouldn't buy a bullet proof Hummer to take the family to the mall on Sundays.. well.. some people do

And yes you can make anything work. I once drove a Ford Fiesta up a mountain in a rural area in the Andes.. at the end it was rattling like a box of old rusty nails.. but we got there

Quote:

Originally Posted by daletournier

I also believe that no company in our modern world stays in business if they continually fail to produce a good product, a free market dosent allow this.

Err.. not true. One word: Microsoft.

daletournier · 10-10-2016, 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by crankysailor

Well.. true. But did you go thru force 7 winds or more and 10ft swell or higher for a week or even longer to get there?

Most of us (thank goodness) don't sail in rough conditions. The question is .. if you get caught someday, do you believe your boat will take care of you?

Nowadays forecasts are of an amazing quality and a coastal sailor without a death wish can probably sail his or her whole life without ever encountering rough conditions. Then you can probably relax your requirements and give comfort and value a higher score in a boat buying decision. I wouldn't buy a bullet proof Hummer to take the family to the mall on Sundays.. well.. some people do

And yes you can make anything work. I once drove a Ford Fiesta up a mountain in a rural area in the Andes.. at the end it was rattling like a box of old rusty nails.. but we got there

Err.. not true. One word: Microsoft.

When you did that trip on a Barvaria ( force 7 ,10 ft seas for 1 week) what went wrong with the boat? What actually failed?

I wonder what percentage of forum contributors are using a microsoft platform when participating on this forum? I find windows more than adequate when i use it eg. Open CPN.

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double u · 10-10-2016, 03:19

"...Some of the older ones are not great sailers, but they are well built,..."
muhaha!!!
just a short look at the secondhand market will show you that the Bavs are the cheapest boats, length for length & age for age. whatever this will tell you about their quality...

daletournier · 10-10-2016, 03:35

Barvaria 42 travelled 64,000nm via cape good hope and Chilean waters amongst other bodies of water. Its safe to say they saw some rough weather.

http://www.yachtsaleswest.com/bavari...world-3-times/

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n13L5 · 10-10-2016, 04:01

Thanks for all the replies...

And while I don't have anything against things made by Robots - Cars made by robots seem to be generally the better choice for reliability. I still get that there's a complete lack of a strong positive sentiment.

I was attracted to the nice, clean shape, the pretty and spacious interior and the apparent good condition.

That a boat built in 2002 was affordable enough for me did raise some suspicion and at any rate, I would seek forum advice - There's nothing like having your boat come apart with your wife and kids aboard.

I'd rather sail something old and ugly as long as I know it'll hold together...

crankysailor · 10-10-2016, 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by daletournier

When you did that trip on a Barvaria ( force 7 ,10 ft seas for 1 week) what went wrong with the boat? What actually failed?

I wonder what percentage of forum contributors are using a microsoft platform when participating on this forum? I find windows more than adequate when i use it eg. Open CPN.

Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

?? I think u misunderstood what I was trying to say.. Your premise is that if you see Bavarias around they must have gotten there somehow and that must mean they are seaworthy and I countered that has a flawed logic cause boats not always if ever sail in rough weather. I wasn't talking about my boat. I have a Contessa ;-)

And trust me sir.. that you find OpenCPN adequate on your PC doesn't mean Microsoft makes a great product .. disclaimer : I write software for a living

n13L5 · 10-10-2016, 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by crankysailor

Err.. not true. One word: Microsoft.

LOL omg so true.
And I thought Microsoft was bad under Ballmer... But now I have a computer with Windows 10

Polux · 10-10-2016, 05:06

Maybe you should ask these guys their opinion about the Bavaria 44:

They circumnavigated by the Northwest passage, you can contact them through their blog:
Perithia
I don't share the idea that the Bavaria Farr designs are better boats (except in the sense that they are more recent designs) than the previous J&J designs, I mean in the build quality and seaworthiness.

daletournier · 10-10-2016, 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polux

Maybe you should ask these guys their opinion about the Bavaria 44:

They circumnavigated by the Northwest passage, you can contact them through their blog:
Perithia
I don't share the idea that the Farr designs are better boats (except in the sense that they are more recent designs) than the previous J&J designs, I mean in the built quality and seaworthiness.

Exactly, ask people that are out there doing it on the boat your talking about.
Many contributors have good intentions but they just dont know. Ask them to back up their opinions with real evidence , facts, not hear say.
You have been presented with two examples of two different Barvarias sailing remote latitudes presented to you on this thread. Others have used words like" it fell apart" but did not substantiate what this meant if anything.

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double u · 10-10-2016, 05:27

in the 90ies I was working on Bavarias (from 37-51') & some of the build-quality was ridiculous bordering on the criminal (e.g. keelstepped mast resting on a hollow floor that was dishing in, comic-book electrical installations, ...)

daletournier · 10-10-2016, 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by crankysailor

?? I think u misunderstood what I was trying to say.. Your premise is that if you see Bavarias around they must have gotten there somehow and that must mean they are seaworthy and I countered that has a flawed logic cause boats not always if ever sail in rough weather. I wasn't talking about my boat. I have a Contessa ;-)

And trust me sir.. that you find OpenCPN adequate on your PC doesn't mean Microsoft makes a great product .. disclaimer : I write software for a living

My point is you indirectly or directly questioned a Barvarias sea worthiness " force 7 ,10foot seas 7 days or more" yet you havent experienced those conditions on a Barvaria. So the truth is you really dont know if they could handle sailing in that weather or not, but still you have an opinion that it cant based on?????
This is my point, unqualified backed up by nothing opinions that influence other peoples buying decisions.
I have a good looking Beneteau 39 next to me right now, also their is a Tayana 37 out the front thats leaking due to rust from the inside of its capsulated keel creating pressure and cracking the hull, the Beneteau isnt taking on water! So is the old boat a more seaworthy boat?
Btw i dont own a Barvaria and i do like Tayana 37. I think they are both good boats just different ages and different designs. Just making a point.

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**boatman61** · 10-10-2016, 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polux

Maybe you should ask these guys their opinion about the Bavaria 44:

They circumnavigated by the Northwest passage, you can contact them through their blog:
Perithia
I don't share the idea that the Bavaria Farr designs are better boats (except in the sense that they are more recent designs) than the previous J&J designs, I mean in the build quality and seaworthiness.

And in the 70's a woman, her husband and child circumnavigated a 30ft plywood Bobcat including going round Cape Horn..
Would you buy one..??