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Old 13-10-2016, 08:41   #91
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Re: Is a 44 Bavaria suitable for sailing in rough seas?

no bad times at all: they weren't mine, I was working on them!
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Old 16-10-2016, 19:02   #92
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Re: Is a 44 Bavaria suitable for sailing in rough seas?

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Originally Posted by double u View Post
could be a removable second stay close behind the roller
that's what i took it he meant.
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Old 24-10-2016, 15:04   #93
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Re: Is a 44 Bavaria suitable for sailing in rough seas?

You see some strange (and strangely emotive) responses when this question of production boats is raised.

Given Bavaria builds about 5,000 a year (and Beneteau about double that figure) you'd have thought they'd be sinking all over the place from some of the ill-informed cr@p you read here!

Where are all these boats? Most enter the charter market where they'll remain for 5 years or so, then someone in the private market will get a good deal and a much larger boat than they would otherwise have been able to afford.

My tuppence-worth, having cruised 25,000 miles so far in our 2008 Vision 44: yes you get what you pay for, and yes you will need to prep a production boat in order to cruise offshore but wouldn't anyone, on any boat?

The PO simply asked whether the example Bavaria would be "suitable for sailing in rough seas". I don't think he was enquiring with a view to circumnavigation, just 'rough seas'. The obvious and equally simple answer would be: yes, once checked over by a suitably qualified surveyor. Like any yacht.

Sounds like he's moved on though, scared by some of the responses here. Sad, really. The example pictures looked pretty good. I've charted that design many times in the Med and was quite impressed.

I'd like to check on that price he quoted, though. I suspect a typo...

Fair winds!
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Old 24-10-2016, 15:13   #94
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Re: Is a 44 Bavaria suitable for sailing in rough seas?

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Originally Posted by Idylles15.5 View Post
... the sun came out, and I could almost see through the fiberglass around the base of the rudder shaft. I couldn't believe it, especially on the load side of a spade rudder where there are heavy hydro forces on the leading edge... if the glass was that thin at a known load bearing point, I can only imagine how thin the glass is in other places. I imagine if I has sanded the bottom paint off the sun would light up the whole bottom...
Wouldn't you see bright sunlight through any GRP hull if you peeled the gelcoat/paint off the outside...?
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Old 24-10-2016, 15:19   #95
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pirate Re: Is a 44 Bavaria suitable for sailing in rough seas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlequin View Post
You see some strange (and strangely emotive) responses when this question of production boats is raised.

Given Bavaria builds about 5,000 a year (and Beneteau about double that figure) you'd have thought they'd be sinking all over the place from some of the ill-informed cr@p you read here!

Where are all these boats? Most enter the charter market where they'll remain for 5 years or so, then someone in the private market will get a good deal and a much larger boat than they would otherwise have been able to afford.

My tuppence-worth, having cruised 25,000 miles so far in our 2008 Vision 44: yes you get what you pay for, and yes you will need to prep a production boat in order to cruise offshore but wouldn't anyone, on any boat?

The PO simply asked whether the example Bavaria would be "suitable for sailing in rough seas". I don't think he was enquiring with a view to circumnavigation, just 'rough seas'. The obvious and equally simple answer would be: yes, once checked over by a suitably qualified surveyor. Like any yacht.

Sounds like he's moved on though, scared by some of the responses here. Sad, really. The example pictures looked pretty good. I've charted that design many times in the Med and was quite impressed.

I'd like to check on that price he quoted, though. I suspect a typo...

Fair winds!
I believe the boat is for sale in Turkey and this is what he wrote..
[Quote]
but meanwhile, I'm trying to find out if a Bavaria boat hull is good and strong enough for say, sailing to and all around NZ, for example... [Quote]
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Old 24-10-2016, 15:46   #96
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Re: Is a 44 Bavaria suitable for sailing in rough seas?

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Originally Posted by Harlequin View Post
Wouldn't you see bright sunlight through any GRP hull if you peeled the gelcoat/paint off the outside...?
Absolutely. Mine is pretty transparent without paint. And is, has been, and will be, sailed all around NZ, the South Pacific (Incl below 40 deg), Indian ocean etc.. She is not a Bravaria though.

There is a lot of emotional nonsense on this site. I'd have no issues with the boat proposed following, as has been said, a good survey and a thorough inspection by myself.

Every design ever produced in any numbers has specific vessels with issues.
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Old 24-10-2016, 15:56   #97
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Re: Is a 44 Bavaria suitable for sailing in rough seas?

[QUOTE=boatman61;2242326]I believe the boat is for sale in Turkey and this is what he wrote..
[Quote]but meanwhile, I'm trying to find out if a Bavaria boat hull is good and strong enough for say, sailing to and all around NZ, for example...
Ah, thanks - didn't catch that.

We're in NZ now, and recently hooked up with a couple of friends (ex-crew), who bought an Elan Impression 434 in Turkey in 2014 and sailed her out here. They sailed back up to the Islands for the southern winter, jumping off from Noumea to Oz sometime soon.

So it can be done, even in a production boat!
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Old 24-10-2016, 17:05   #98
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Re: Is a 44 Bavaria suitable for sailing in rough seas?

[QUOTE=Harlequin;2242355][QUOTE=boatman61;2242326][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="3"]I believe the boat is for sale in Turkey and this is what he wrote..
Quote:
but meanwhile, I'm trying to find out if a Bavaria boat hull is good and strong enough for say, sailing to and all around NZ, for example...

Ah, thanks - didn't catch that.

We're in NZ now, and recently hooked up with a couple of friends (ex-crew), who bought an Elan Impression 434 in Turkey in 2014 and sailed her out here. They sailed back up to the Islands for the southern winter, jumping off from Noumea to Oz sometime soon.

So it can be done, even in a production boat!
What was their opinion regarding the elan 434 impression? Im looking at some in a couple of weeks I hope.

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Old 24-10-2016, 17:25   #99
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pirate Re: Is a 44 Bavaria suitable for sailing in rough seas?

[QUOTE=daletournier;2242404][QUOTE=Harlequin;2242355]
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="3"]I believe the boat is for sale in Turkey and this is what he wrote..


What was their opinion regarding the elan 434 impression? Im looking at some in a couple of weeks I hope.

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Delivered one of these Greece, Turkey to Malta last year.. the owners were in Gib a few days back prepping for the Canaries and the ARC.. end goal Oz..
Nice boats.. nippy and sail pretty well.. a few steps up from a Bavaria.
Aft master cabin berth is a head banger tho'.. till you get the hang of it..
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Old 24-10-2016, 17:30   #100
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Re: Is a 44 Bavaria suitable for sailing in rough seas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlequin View Post
You see some strange (and strangely emotive) responses when this question of production boats is raised.

Given Bavaria builds about 5,000 a year (and Beneteau about double that figure) you'd have thought they'd be sinking all over the place from some of the ill-informed cr@p you read here!

Where are all these boats? Most enter the charter market where they'll remain for 5 years or so, then someone in the private market will get a good deal and a much larger boat than they would otherwise have been able to afford.

My tuppence-worth, having cruised 25,000 miles so far in our 2008 Vision 44: yes you get what you pay for, and yes you will need to prep a production boat in order to cruise offshore but wouldn't anyone, on any boat?

The PO simply asked whether the example Bavaria would be "suitable for sailing in rough seas". I don't think he was enquiring with a view to circumnavigation, just 'rough seas'. The obvious and equally simple answer would be: yes, once checked over by a suitably qualified surveyor. Like any yacht.

Sounds like he's moved on though, scared by some of the responses here. Sad, really. The example pictures looked pretty good. I've charted that design many times in the Med and was quite impressed.

I'd like to check on that price he quoted, though. I suspect a typo...

Fair winds!
As im searching for another boat it becomes apparent to me how much rubbish information is continually being peddled out there. Im still on my previous boat helping new owner, only yesterday a guy on a barvaria charter boat comes over for a chat. When he retires hes heading to the carribean to purchase ex charter boat. In the conversation he mentioned he wont buy a cat because they flip, beneteaus work themselves apart due to poor construction but barvarias seem ok but would probably lose there mast in a knock down. Hes an occasional weekend trailer sailer guy that has it all worked out.
Hunters are a classic eg. Even im biased due to the never ending dribble ive heard, so ive been trying to seek some truth, Ive been reaseaching the hunter 49, and its just impressive, lead keel, solid bolted and glued deck join, kevlar weaved into the hull from the keel forward, glassed in bulkheads, large tankage etc ,but if you listen to most they are a piece of crap. What other boat was driven into banks at low tide under full sail to test keel hull join? Or boat strapped down then a crane attached to its rig and shaken to see if it would break? Yet they are pieces of crap?
On the other side I hear people tell me how good amels are, now don't get me wrong I do think they are good, but most who make these claims to me, like my friends wife haven't the faintest clue of how the boat is constructed let alone how to sail it, yet if I purchased a hunter she would ridicule me as she knows they are rubbish boats.
It's been a real eye opener to realize how many opinions are backed by so little genuine education and or experience.

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Old 24-10-2016, 17:31   #101
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Re: Is a 44 Bavaria suitable for sailing in rough seas?

[QUOTE=boatman61;2242415][QUOTE=daletournier;2242404]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlequin View Post

Delivered one of these Greece, Turkey to Malta last year.. the owners were in Gib a few days back prepping for the Canaries and the ARC.. end goal Oz..
Nice boats.. nippy and sail pretty well.. a few steps up from a Bavaria.
Aft master cabin berth is a head banger tho'.. till you get the hang of it..
Thanks.

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Old 24-10-2016, 18:10   #102
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pirate Re: Is a 44 Bavaria suitable for sailing in rough seas?

W-E Tansat crossings on Bene's and Hunters.. no complaints here..
Just an occasional wind up..
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Old 24-10-2016, 19:58   #103
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Re: Is a 44 Bavaria suitable for sailing in rough seas?

They seemed happy enough, after spending a few months upgrading and equipping for the trip. They were quite inexperienced, so also joined the ARC.

Aft state cabin looked cosy (as mentioned elsewhere) - probably better for a smaller couple. Less cockpit and internal space as compared to our beamier Vision 44. The stepped cabin sole would take some getting used to. I gather the Impression is their 'cruiser' version, like Beneteau's Oceanis, with less keel (at 1.9m) and correspondingly smaller & lighter mast, boom and rig than I'm used to.

Can't vouch for the 'a step up from Bavaria' comment, as I've never owned or chartered an Elan Impression. Both appear to have similar build, spec and second hand prices, ex-charter.

I'd put you on to them but they are probably focused on their departure across the Coral Sea. Today?

Best of luck!
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Old 25-10-2016, 04:31   #104
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Re: Is a 44 Bavaria suitable for sailing in rough seas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlequin View Post
You see some strange (and strangely emotive) responses when this question of production boats is raised.

Given Bavaria builds about 5,000 a year (and Beneteau about double that figure) you'd have thought they'd be sinking all over the place from some of the ill-informed cr@p you read here!

Where are all these boats? Most enter the charter market where they'll remain for 5 years or so, then someone in the private market will get a good deal and a much larger boat than they would otherwise have been able to afford.

My tuppence-worth, having cruised 25,000 miles so far in our 2008 Vision 44: yes you get what you pay for, and yes you will need to prep a production boat in order to cruise offshore but wouldn't anyone, on any boat?

The PO simply asked whether the example Bavaria would be "suitable for sailing in rough seas". I don't think he was enquiring with a view to circumnavigation, just 'rough seas'. The obvious and equally simple answer would be: yes, once checked over by a suitably qualified surveyor. Like any yacht.

Sounds like he's moved on though, scared by some of the responses here. Sad, really. The example pictures looked pretty good. I've charted that design many times in the Med and was quite impressed.

I'd like to check on that price he quoted, though. I suspect a typo...

Fair winds!
Thanks for adding your view on this.

Even though I'm not considering that particular boat right now, the type is not off my list. The price was not a typo, but apparently a bit too good to be true in this case - although I have heard of someone else getting that same model for a price in that range. Much depends on the condition, I guess


Overall, its not the complaints about this type of boat or that, what I find truly discouraging is the severe degradation all the gears on your sailboat have to take from the saltwater, making good maintenance of a car sound like a joke, in spite of all the rust and the severe lack of service by the manufacturer during the initial service - like calling break-in periods unnecessary and claiming their transmissions are "service free" with a lifetime-transmission-fluid fill "that never needs to be replaced."

Uh, I hate run-on sentences

Either way, no matter if someone is wrong or right about something, I think this forum is great, cause people do care enough to give answers - which of course will be according to their experiences and opinions.


If I wasn't pressed to keep going with the sail boat plan by necessity, I'd probably just go and buy a vineyard in Portugal with the money

Finding a boat is also hard because because they are spread all over the globe and prices fluctuate a lot.

I will be in Portugal next week, gonna check out what's for sale, while I'm there.
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Old 25-10-2016, 04:53   #105
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Re: Is a 44 Bavaria suitable for sailing in rough seas?

"...ill-informed cr@p ..."
easy mate, easy...!
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