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Old 23-04-2013, 17:03   #1
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Is a 25 foot Vertue too small for extended cruising?

Hi!

First post here! I am a regular on other non sailing forums so I am really happy to now be on my way to becoming a regular here (I hope!)

I am thinking of buying a lovely Vertue II! Plans for this yacht will be some single handed cruises to the UK Channel Islands, quite a bit of UK coastal stuff and perhaps a cruise to the Azores...

However, there is a good possibility that the other half may well want to join me during these exploits! So I am wondering should I put my 'heart 'love affair' with such a pretty long keeler aside and buy a more modern spacious and bigger boat for the same money!!!

I remember the phrase that an old salty dog mumbled to me in Australia... "the right boat for you is one that you row away from after sailing that have to then stop, turn around and admire her"

But, the heart ruling the head is perhaps not a good motto out there at sea!

Thoughts would be much appreciated!

Fair winds,

Pete.
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Old 23-04-2013, 17:14   #2
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Welcome to the forum. Go with your passion but bring your lady along to help with the decision. If you want her on board long term you need to bring her aboard early in the process.

We own power and sail and are happy with either as long as we are together.
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Old 23-04-2013, 17:17   #3
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Re: Is a 25 foot Vertue too small for extended cruising?

Some people cruise in even smaller boats. I think you should clear the "modern and spacious" vs. "old and beautiful" with your better half. If she's anything like mine, she will prefer to not give up anything. If she's anywhere near one of my best girly friends (she actually is female, lol), she will enjoy "camping" in close quarters and not feel it's "roughing it" one bit.

In other words, I think it's a question for you and yours, not the rest of us.
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Old 23-04-2013, 17:33   #4
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Re: Is a 25 foot Vertue too small for extended cruising?

These are very uncomfortable boats in trade wind condition. Of course many more modern boats are as well. You want something with a moderate turn of the bilge not wineglass lime the Vertue and no super shallow bottomed like newer designs. Something just pre IOR in fiberglass in the smaller sizes or something made as a dedicated cruiser in the over 35' class.
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Old 23-04-2013, 17:36   #5
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Re: Is a 25 foot Vertue too small for extended cruising?

2 great replies so far! Many thanks!

My last 'pretty boat' was a 30 foot Hereshoff 28 in Australia! That actually 'ticked' both boxes! My last 'modern and spacious' was just that... but sailed like a lightweight dog and gave me no confidence for open water sailing!

It is the 'step down' to 25 feet that I am questioning... is that enough room for two to realistically 'live in' for perhaps a month or more... even if we are both used to camping in a much smaller space!

Any Vertue owners on here?? Your comments would be great too!

Cheers,

Pete
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Old 23-04-2013, 17:38   #6
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Re: Is a 25 foot Vertue too small for extended cruising?

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Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
These are very uncomfortable boats in trade wind condition. Of course many more modern boats are as well. You want something with a moderate turn of the bilge not wineglass lime the Vertue and no super shallow bottomed like newer designs. Something just pre IOR in fiberglass in the smaller sizes or something made as a dedicated cruiser in the over 35' class.
Why are they 'very uncomfortable boats in trade wing condition'... I am guessing because of downwind 'rolling'???
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Old 23-04-2013, 17:40   #7
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Re: Is a 25 foot Vertue too small for extended cruising?

Quote:
Originally Posted by petersuren View Post
Hi!

First post here! I am a regular on other non sailing forums so I am really happy to now be on my way to becoming a regular here (I hope!)

I am thinking of buying a lovely Vertue II! Plans for this yacht will be some single handed cruises to the UK Channel Islands, quite a bit of UK coastal stuff and perhaps a cruise to the Azores...

However, there is a good possibility that the other half may well want to join me during these exploits! So I am wondering should I put my 'heart 'love affair' with such a pretty long keeler aside and buy a more modern spacious and bigger boat for the same money!!!

I remember the phrase that an old salty dog mumbled to me in Australia... "the right boat for you is one that you row away from after sailing that have to then stop, turn around and admire her"

But, the heart ruling the head is perhaps not a good motto out there at sea!

Thoughts would be much appreciated!

Fair winds,

Pete.
If she's five foot one and you are five foot six, no problem.

If you only intend to daysail, no problem.

If you intend to solo cruise, no problem.

Not any of those? Potential problems.
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Old 23-04-2013, 18:25   #8
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Re: Is a 25 foot Vertue too small for extended cruising?

Peter,

Close friends of ours built and are living aboard a Vertue (Tui of Opua). It is bloody small by my standards, but they manage well. They are relatively small folks, especially the admiral who stands about 5 foot nothing and that is a big factor!

Compared to your H-28, it is minuscule! Not just the length, but the Vertue is very narrow as well. I'm not doubting their seaworthyness, just the problems of living aboard such a small space. Ann and I couldn't do it... perhaps you can, but tread carefully, mate!

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 24-04-2013, 08:42   #9
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Re: Is a 25 foot Vertue too small for extended cruising?

That was my point. Clearly, while old and with very little in the way of amenities, few could question the Vertue's seaworthiness, or that of the Folkboat or a lot of 25-footers of that vintage and type. But there comes a point where moving loads of gear just to sleep in a sitting position, or crawling around and hearing one's crew relieving themselves behind a thin curtain becomes unappealing.

A month aboard solo in a Vertue would test me, personally, but I am over six feet.
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Old 24-04-2013, 08:51   #10
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Re: Is a 25 foot Vertue too small for extended cruising?

Quote:
Originally Posted by petersuren View Post
2 great replies so far! Many thanks!

My last 'pretty boat' was a 30 foot Hereshoff 28 in Australia! That actually 'ticked' both boxes! My last 'modern and spacious' was just that... but sailed like a lightweight dog and gave me no confidence for open water sailing!

It is the 'step down' to 25 feet that I am questioning... is that enough room for two to realistically 'live in' for perhaps a month or more... even if we are both used to camping in a much smaller space!

Any Vertue owners on here?? Your comments would be great too!

Cheers,

Pete

There's an important difference between camping and a long cruise (well, a couple).

First of all, you go camping for the surroundings outside your tent. You hike in, set up your camp, and then you start exploring. You come back to camp to eat and sleep, except for the occasional very rainy day.

Can't do that on your way to the Azores.

Also, the tent, won't rock 'n roll in rough water. Can the two of you handle being seasick together in such a small space?

There's just nowhere to go to get away from each other on a 25' boat if you have a major disagreement.

The smaller the boat is, the more you have to look at its design features for bluewater sailing. If I were you, I would listen to the guys talking about hull shape.
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Old 24-04-2013, 09:04   #11
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Re: Is a 25 foot Vertue too small for extended cruising?

Thanks guys, some great comments.

Am I correct in my understanding that the wineglass hull shape with the long keel rolls a lot down-wind? (as per the earlier post about trade wind conditions..) I once sailed on a UK Frances 26 and that was an awful roller in a downwind sloppy swell... albeit it the Frances has a softer turn of the bilge and displaces about 3000lb's less than the Vertue!

I am seeing a message here too!

Cheers, Pete.
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Old 24-04-2013, 11:46   #12
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Re: Is a 25 foot Vertue too small for extended cruising?

Buy whatever the "other half" is happy with. Could be a Vertue, could be something else - really depends on the "other half".....some are happy being in small places with another person. and can fit! Perhaps try a weekend living together in your bathroom........

Probably also depends on how you will be cruising, especially if will only be onboard 24/7 (rain and shine) or venturing ashore for more than a shopping trip now and again. and possibly even mixing up onboard with a few nights (or more!) in a B & B / hotel. FWIW, me finds it hard to cope with simply me for extended periods..........

Pretty boats though!
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Old 24-04-2013, 12:18   #13
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Re: Is a 25 foot Vertue too small for extended cruising?

I think a huge factor in long term comfort on board a small any boat is whether you can get a good night's sleep.

For many years we spent 10 weeks a year on a 25 foot trailerable boat cruising Australian waters. My better half is 6'1". We extended the v-berth to increase the sleeping room to a decent size. Despite up to 5 weeks at a time on board and despite no standing headroom for either of us, we truly never felt cramped.

You do need to get along though .
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Old 24-04-2013, 12:25   #14
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Re: Is a 25 foot Vertue too small for extended cruising?

Robin Graham sailed around the world on a 24 foot boat. Much depends on how comfortable you need to be.

Robin Lee Graham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 24-04-2013, 13:44   #15
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Re: Is a 25 foot Vertue too small for extended cruising?

The Vertue is a heavy displacement boat. Way more boat than the typical 25 footer. Didn't the Hiscock's cruise on a Vertue in their early years?? Another book on cruising in a Vertue is My Old Man and the Sea. A father son team who built an FRP Vertue and sailed around Cape Horn. Will sell you my copy for $5 plus shipping.

Was recently on a Vancover 28. It was a way better boat for a cruising couple than my 35' Peason.

Sailing is about wanting to go than about the boat. Think most people use the boat as an excuse to quit or not go in the first place, not the reality that they don't like the cruising life.
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