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Old 27-04-2013, 15:12   #31
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Re: Is a 25 foot Vertue too small for extended cruising?

BTW, the Vertue WILL take care of you, as most ocean capable boats will. Read any number of ocean cruising stories where the crew hove to and went below to ride out a gale, leaving the vessel to survive the storm by itself. If you are on a boat that needs constant human intervention to survive a passage, your on the wrong boat!!!
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Old 27-04-2013, 15:45   #32
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Re: Is a 25 foot Vertue too small for extended cruising?

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Originally Posted by Glenn.Brooks View Post
BTW, the Vertue WILL take care of you, as most ocean capable boats will. Read any number of ocean cruising stories where the crew hove to and went below to ride out a gale, leaving the vessel to survive the storm by itself. If you are on a boat that needs constant human intervention to survive a passage, your on the wrong boat!!!

You are putting many things in a box, and then they get all mixed up.

A gale is a gale and a storm is another thing.

I will agree, if the gale is not one with bad seas, most well built boats may, at a time, take care of their crews. But I would not recommend laying hove to and going down below, in a small craft, in anything that looks like a storm. Please read Estarzinger's paper linked at the top of the thread - the list of the things not to be done towards the end.

I can add that to any small craft, a storm will begin where a bigger craft is still 'riding out a gale'. And you can trust me on this, because it is written from the deck of a small craft and one that has been thru many gales and a few storms.

Do not lay your trust in cruising stories, even if there is any number of them ;-)

Cheers,
b.
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Old 27-04-2013, 15:56   #33
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Re: Is a 25 foot Vertue too small for extended cruising?

The Hays' built a fiberglass vertue from a bare hull. Assume the boat was molded in England and shipped to the States. There a few wooden Vertues on Yachtworld and a frp Vertue 2. Does anyone have information on the frp boats??
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Old 27-04-2013, 17:05   #34
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I have sailed three similar sized boats on offshore voyages. They were a 26 foot WOD (folkboat type) singlehanded from Nelson to Sydney in winter, a 28 foot holman and pye from Brisbane to Wellington also in winter and a 28 foot Ganley NZ to Tonga.

My instincts based on the lines and displacement of the virtue is that it will be one of the more comfortable and safe small boats to ride out a gale in.

The smaller the boat the more important seakindliness is. The folkboat and the ganley where quite bouncy and uncomfortable. The holman and pye (much like a twister but heavier) was similar to a virtue in some ways and was a supurb sea boat that really looked after us with her gentle motion in all conditions. She was much more comfortable at sea (iirc) than an s&s 34 that I sailed across the tasman Hobart to Bluff and back from Nelson on.

Seaworthiness is different than seakindliness. On a boat this size I think ultimate seaworthiness more depends on the ability to survive a capsize with crew and boat in one peice (but probably the mast in many peices). And certainly the glass virtues look strongly enough built. An old wooden one might not be so good in this regard unless well maintained and those big windows and cockpit openings strengthened.

Modern techniques like series drogues and stronger materials such as lexcan make small boats potentialy much safer than in the past.

I am sure you have also heard of Bob Nances voyages in his virtue. And Wanderer II's amazing voyages (she being almost a 30 foot virtue). There was also an older wooden virtue recently that did a climbing expedition to Jan Mayen Island. Something can be read about her over at attainable adventure cruising.
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Old 27-04-2013, 17:34   #35
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Re: Is a 25 foot Vertue too small for extended cruising?

Hiscocks Wanderer 2 was somewhat similar to a Virtue, but much lower freeboard and cabin height. It was 4 1/2 tons, and I think the Virtues were 5 tones. I saw Wanderer 2 in Hawaii in the 70s, and I thought it looked very cramped compared to my Contessa 26. I had lived in Basin three in Sausalito in the 70s, and there were 1 or 2 Virtues there, and they looked to me to be roomier than my Contessa. The Virtue would be almost twice the displacement of a wooden Folkboat, which would go a long way towards a nicer motion. I think a GRP version of a Virtue would be an almost ideal small cruising boat.___Just another of my opinionated opinions._____Grant.
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Old 27-04-2013, 17:49   #36
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Re: Is a 25 foot Vertue too small for extended cruising?

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The Hays' built a fiberglass vertue from a bare hull. Assume the boat was molded in England and shipped to the States. There a few wooden Vertues on Yachtworld and a frp Vertue 2. Does anyone have information on the frp boats??
Seen a glass Vertue in RSA (Simons Town). Try emailing the yachtclub in Simons Town, perhaps it is a member's boat.

PS She looked very well made.

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Old 27-04-2013, 18:56   #37
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Re: Is a 25 foot Vertue too small for extended cruising?

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The Virtue would be almost twice the displacement of a wooden Folkboat, which would go a long way towards a nicer motion.
Yes that sounds about right, My folkboat was about 2 tonnes light and 3 tonnes loaded. that extra couple of tonnes on the Virtue makes a huge difference in comfort to small boats. The longer overhang forward of the folkboat can pound in some conditions.

If it is better to take that 5 tonnes and spread it out into a bigger boat is a different argument!

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.Wanderer II's amazing voyages (she being almost a 30 foot virtue).
Duh. I was thinking of Wanderer III!

The wooden virtue that recently that did a climbing expedition to Jan Mayen Island can be read about here.There are also some links to some video.
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Old 28-04-2013, 06:58   #38
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Re: Is a 25 foot Vertue too small for extended cruising?

Thanks all for some excellent and varied replies!

All really Vertueous, with Vertuoisty, Vertuitude!

I will be back with the 'result' of this post!

Cheers,

Pete.
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