Irrational fear / keel bolts

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by ontherocks83

No I am not "afraid" of keel bolts, I just don't like what I can't inspect/see.

The situation is:

Our partner in NH on Lake Winnipesaukee dropped out last year on our old Catalina 30, and since she definitely was not ocean worthy so we sold her off.

We now potentially (the wifes approval being the "potential" part) have a line on a 1 owner 1984 Catalina 30 out of Narragansett Bay. The price is very reasonable and the owner is a close family friend that I have known since I was born.

I know the history on the boat and the maintenance that was done on it.

The boat has been dry docked/winterized in his yard for the last 4 years due to health reasons.

I plan on getting a survey and getting the engine running and checking the operation of all the systems. But the one thing you can't see is if there is corrosion on the keel bolts at the keel hull joint.

I have absolutely no reason to believe anything in the keel is compromised or in poor condition. The maintenance on the boat has been impeccable and knowing the owner and his family the boat has not been "abused". He's never even let it leave dock with out him on it.

Now to the "irrational fear" part, Aside from torquing the keel nuts to full spec to make sure the fiberglass or plywood is not compromised I have no other way to check for corrosion of the keel bolts from unknown water ingress. There is no cracking at the keel hull joint (aside from the catalina smile which is normal) and no other evidence to lead me to believe there is a problem. So I guess the big question is, Is there a point in a boats life where you should drop the keel to check the bolts as regular maintenance or do you wait for certain signs before doing anything?

If this deal goes through I will be leaving the lake for good and keeping the boat in Narragansett bay. Which I've been wanting to do for a very, very long time and I am very excited about upgrading to the ocean!!!!!! But with that comes some anticipation of the unknown and what I can't inspect. You all have much bigger waves on the ocean and things I wouldn't worry about on the lake I am second guessing for the ocean.

So am I being ridiculous about phantom corrosion on keel bolts or due to age is there something I should be doing before or after purchasing?

I would think, if you can find a spec. torque and can achieve that without hearing that disgusting sound of it snapping you are golden. If you can't find a boat MFG. spec. go with one for that grade and dia. bolt.

Paranoia will give you ulcers. Best of luck.

[ontherocks83]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I would think, if you can find a spec. torque and can achieve that without hearing that disgusting sound of it snapping you are golden. If you can't find a boat MFG. spec. go with one for that grade and dia. bolt.

Paranoia will give you ulcers. Best of luck.

I have the spec sheet from Catalina somewhere at home. (I'm in the process of moving so finding it will be fun) If I remember correctly it is somewhere around the 100 ft/lbs mark but I will find it for sure before torquing it.

[KimSails]

How many C30's have lost a keel?

How many keel bolts can fail and the keel still stay on? Probably several.

What are the chances that all of the keel bolts will fail in the same season? Especially considering that you successfully torqued them to spec?

I would say don't worry.

If you are still worried you can always drill, tap, and install sister bolts. My guess is that the amount of strength and work to install just the first one will go a long way to alleviating your worry!

[rosatte]

dont waste ur time or money dropping keel we have a 1991 catalina34 first thing i was told to do drop keel so we did .keel bolts were like new no issues at all so after reebbing keel and reinstall 3800 dollars later just for peace of mind.....ßave ur money

[ontherocks83]

Very valid points all around. Thank you!

I think as long as they torque out and there is no weeping from the bolts in the bilge or from the keel hull joint, I will move on to other less dooms day type worries

[sailorboy1]

You really need to remove the nuts and clean the threads in order to torque them down.

[Chuck Hawley]

You have so much going for you in combatting your "irrational" fear of losing your keel:

1. Lots of boats upon which to do your research. If you had a one-off, you'd be in a far worse position.
2. Extensive owner network.
3. Gerry Douglas, the designer, who is one of the most honest, professional, and delightful guys in the industry.

Don't worry; do your research and base your decision on facts. Manufacturers like Catalina don't stay in business for 30+ years by making boats with dangerous flaws. I know that a keel bolt failure could happen to anyone's boat (I guess unless it was internal ballast, but then it wouldn't have keel bolts), but I think the world is full of much more likely failures.

Incidentally, I've lost a keel at sea, and it's no picnic. 10,400# in 12,000 feet of blue Pacific. I understand your fear!

Chuck

[hsi88]

I have a 77' Catalina 30. The PO drilled and threaded additional bolts to use in addition of the studs and nuts that came with the boat. My Catalina has no smile. Which in this case is a good thing.

[ontherocks83]

Originally Posted by Chuck Hawley

Incidentally, I've lost a keel at sea, and it's no picnic. 10,400# in 12,000 feet of blue Pacific. I understand your fear!

Chuck

OH man. That sounds exciting, by exciting I mean F*****G terrifying.

Care to share the experience? Before during and after?

[Pauls]

As Sailorboy said, you have to remove the keel bolts and clean them. In addition, and this is a big deal, torque specs are set for either dry condition or lubricated. The difference in applied force is around 50%. Especially with stainless I would strongly recommend using a lubed condition.

If the bolts are bronze they are probably fine. If they are stainless then there is nothing "irrational" in being concerned with them. Lots of boats have keels bolted on with stainless and it is a poor material for the job. Stainless depends on exposure to oxygen for its corrosion resistance. The keel bolts are sealed away from oxygen, thus deprived of what they must have for their corrosion resistance. In addition, if you look at the galvanic scale you will see stainless has TWO positions on that scale, one near the bottom and the other near the top. The bottom position is called "active" which means it has no oxide to protect it. The top position is called "passive" which means it is oxided. So you also have the potential for the stainless to destroy itself by galvanic corrosion.

I've seen a lot of badly eaten away bolts. It's not a big deal to haul the boat, drop the keel enough to see the bolts, reseal and reinstall.

[alctel]

Originally Posted by ontherocks83

OH man. That sounds exciting, by exciting I mean F*****G terrifying.

Care to share the experience? Before during and after?

seriously!

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by Chuck Hawley

...Gerry Douglas, the designer, who is one of the most honest, professional, and delightful guys in the industry...

You could add kind and generous, and more. But I believe it is Frank Butler who is generally credited with the design of the Catalina 30.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by ontherocks83

Care to share the experience? Before during and after?

Chuck is probably too modest to blow his own horn . . . But it is a pretty famous incident.

Boat named Charley on delivery back from Hawaii, keel drops off 1.5 days out, Chuck is skipper turns boat around and sails it back successfully with no keel (actuslly only a 1' stub).

I think the story is in a bit longer form here: http://club.scyc.org/wp-content/uplo...et-2011-12.pdf

[Stu Jackson]

Don't worry, be happy, go sailing. It is NOT an issue. Chuck Hawley is right.

Here's why:

Rebedding a Keel Stub 101 The Catalina Smile with Pictures

Rebedding the keel stub The Catalina Smile w/flix

[knockabout]

check with manufacturer reccomended life of keel bolts and servicing procedure