Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-06-2016, 09:27   #16
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 5,565
Re: Irrational fear / keel bolts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ontherocks83 View Post
No I am not "afraid" of keel bolts, I just don't like what I can't inspect/see.

The situation is:

Our partner in NH on Lake Winnipesaukee dropped out last year on our old Catalina 30, and since she definitely was not ocean worthy so we sold her off.

We now potentially (the wifes approval being the "potential" part) have a line on a 1 owner 1984 Catalina 30 out of Narragansett Bay. The price is very reasonable and the owner is a close family friend that I have known since I was born.

I know the history on the boat and the maintenance that was done on it.

The boat has been dry docked/winterized in his yard for the last 4 years due to health reasons.

I plan on getting a survey and getting the engine running and checking the operation of all the systems. But the one thing you can't see is if there is corrosion on the keel bolts at the keel hull joint.

I have absolutely no reason to believe anything in the keel is compromised or in poor condition. The maintenance on the boat has been impeccable and knowing the owner and his family the boat has not been "abused". He's never even let it leave dock with out him on it.

Now to the "irrational fear" part, Aside from torquing the keel nuts to full spec to make sure the fiberglass or plywood is not compromised I have no other way to check for corrosion of the keel bolts from unknown water ingress. There is no cracking at the keel hull joint (aside from the catalina smile which is normal) and no other evidence to lead me to believe there is a problem. So I guess the big question is, Is there a point in a boats life where you should drop the keel to check the bolts as regular maintenance or do you wait for certain signs before doing anything?

If this deal goes through I will be leaving the lake for good and keeping the boat in Narragansett bay. Which I've been wanting to do for a very, very long time and I am very excited about upgrading to the ocean!!!!!! But with that comes some anticipation of the unknown and what I can't inspect. You all have much bigger waves on the ocean and things I wouldn't worry about on the lake I am second guessing for the ocean.

So am I being ridiculous about phantom corrosion on keel bolts or due to age is there something I should be doing before or after purchasing?
I would think, if you can find a spec. torque and can achieve that without hearing that disgusting sound of it snapping you are golden. If you can't find a boat MFG. spec. go with one for that grade and dia. bolt.

Paranoia will give you ulcers. Best of luck.
__________________

__________________
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2016, 09:36   #17
Registered User
 
ontherocks83's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: Checkmate Strobe 201
Posts: 1,587
Re: Irrational fear / keel bolts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
I would think, if you can find a spec. torque and can achieve that without hearing that disgusting sound of it snapping you are golden. If you can't find a boat MFG. spec. go with one for that grade and dia. bolt.

Paranoia will give you ulcers. Best of luck.
I have the spec sheet from Catalina somewhere at home. (I'm in the process of moving so finding it will be fun) If I remember correctly it is somewhere around the 100 ft/lbs mark but I will find it for sure before torquing it.
__________________

__________________
-Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
-Molon Labe
ontherocks83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2016, 10:04   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Michigan, USA
Boat: Sabre 34 Mk 1
Posts: 37
Re: Irrational fear / keel bolts

How many C30's have lost a keel?

How many keel bolts can fail and the keel still stay on? Probably several.

What are the chances that all of the keel bolts will fail in the same season? Especially considering that you successfully torqued them to spec?

I would say don't worry.

If you are still worried you can always drill, tap, and install sister bolts. My guess is that the amount of strength and work to install just the first one will go a long way to alleviating your worry!
__________________
KimSails is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2016, 10:04   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: belleville ont.
Boat: catalina 34
Posts: 126
Re: Irrational fear / keel bolts

dont waste ur time or money dropping keel we have a 1991 catalina34 first thing i was told to do drop keel so we did .keel bolts were like new no issues at all so after reebbing keel and reinstall 3800 dollars later just for peace of mind.....▀ave ur money
__________________
rosatte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2016, 10:32   #20
Registered User
 
ontherocks83's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: Checkmate Strobe 201
Posts: 1,587
Re: Irrational fear / keel bolts

Very valid points all around. Thank you!

I think as long as they torque out and there is no weeping from the bolts in the bilge or from the keel hull joint, I will move on to other less dooms day type worries
__________________
-Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
-Molon Labe
ontherocks83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2016, 10:40   #21
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 11,799
Re: Irrational fear / keel bolts

You really need to remove the nuts and clean the threads in order to torque them down.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2016, 11:10   #22
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: California
Boat: Alerion Express 38 Yawl
Posts: 228
Re: Irrational fear / keel bolts

You have so much going for you in combatting your "irrational" fear of losing your keel:

1. Lots of boats upon which to do your research. If you had a one-off, you'd be in a far worse position.
2. Extensive owner network.
3. Gerry Douglas, the designer, who is one of the most honest, professional, and delightful guys in the industry.

Don't worry; do your research and base your decision on facts. Manufacturers like Catalina don't stay in business for 30+ years by making boats with dangerous flaws. I know that a keel bolt failure could happen to anyone's boat (I guess unless it was internal ballast, but then it wouldn't have keel bolts), but I think the world is full of much more likely failures.

Incidentally, I've lost a keel at sea, and it's no picnic. 10,400# in 12,000 feet of blue Pacific. I understand your fear!

Chuck
__________________
Chuck Hawley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2016, 11:25   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: PA, sail Chesapeake
Boat: Lots of boats.
Posts: 355
Re: Irrational fear / keel bolts

I have a 77' Catalina 30. The PO drilled and threaded additional bolts to use in addition of the studs and nuts that came with the boat. My Catalina has no smile. Which in this case is a good thing.
__________________
hsi88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2016, 11:30   #24
Registered User
 
ontherocks83's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: Checkmate Strobe 201
Posts: 1,587
Re: Irrational fear / keel bolts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Hawley View Post
Incidentally, I've lost a keel at sea, and it's no picnic. 10,400# in 12,000 feet of blue Pacific. I understand your fear!

Chuck
OH man. That sounds exciting, by exciting I mean F*****G terrifying.

Care to share the experience? Before during and after?
__________________
-Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
-Molon Labe
ontherocks83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2016, 11:49   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2008
Boat: Custom cutter, 42'
Posts: 345
Re: Irrational fear / keel bolts

As Sailorboy said, you have to remove the keel bolts and clean them. In addition, and this is a big deal, torque specs are set for either dry condition or lubricated. The difference in applied force is around 50%. Especially with stainless I would strongly recommend using a lubed condition.

If the bolts are bronze they are probably fine. If they are stainless then there is nothing "irrational" in being concerned with them. Lots of boats have keels bolted on with stainless and it is a poor material for the job. Stainless depends on exposure to oxygen for its corrosion resistance. The keel bolts are sealed away from oxygen, thus deprived of what they must have for their corrosion resistance. In addition, if you look at the galvanic scale you will see stainless has TWO positions on that scale, one near the bottom and the other near the top. The bottom position is called "active" which means it has no oxide to protect it. The top position is called "passive" which means it is oxided. So you also have the potential for the stainless to destroy itself by galvanic corrosion.

I've seen a lot of badly eaten away bolts. It's not a big deal to haul the boat, drop the keel enough to see the bolts, reseal and reinstall.
__________________
Pauls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2016, 11:55   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Victoria BC
Boat: 1980 Hunter 36
Posts: 645
Re: Irrational fear / keel bolts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ontherocks83 View Post
OH man. That sounds exciting, by exciting I mean F*****G terrifying.

Care to share the experience? Before during and after?
seriously!
__________________
S/V Gudgeon
www.gudgeonblog.ca
alctel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2016, 13:11   #27
Registered User
 
Terra Nova's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: Freya 39 cutter- Terra Nova
Posts: 3,450
Re: Irrational fear / keel bolts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Hawley View Post
...Gerry Douglas, the designer, who is one of the most honest, professional, and delightful guys in the industry...
You could add kind and generous, and more. But I believe it is Frank Butler who is generally credited with the design of the Catalina 30.
__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
Terra Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2016, 14:17   #28
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,546
Re: Irrational fear / keel bolts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ontherocks83 View Post
Care to share the experience? Before during and after?
Chuck is probably too modest to blow his own horn . . . But it is a pretty famous incident.

Boat named Charley on delivery back from Hawaii, keel drops off 1.5 days out, Chuck is skipper turns boat around and sails it back successfully with no keel (actuslly only a 1' stub).

I think the story is in a bit longer form here: http://club.scyc.org/wp-content/uplo...et-2011-12.pdf
__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2016, 14:21   #29
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,105
Re: Irrational fear / keel bolts

Don't worry, be happy, go sailing. It is NOT an issue. Chuck Hawley is right.

Here's why:

Rebedding a Keel Stub 101 The Catalina Smile with Pictures

Rebedding the keel stub The Catalina Smile w/flix
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2016, 14:23   #30
Registered User

Join Date: May 2016
Location: mackay, queensland. australia
Boat: e.a jack (builder), g.l watson (designer), 6.2 mtr wll sailboat
Posts: 477
Re: Irrational fear / keel bolts

check with manufacturer reccomended life of keel bolts and servicing procedure
__________________

__________________
knockabout is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
keel, keel bolts

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale or Trade: U bolts, U bolts, and more U bolts off-the-grid Classifieds Archive 1 20-07-2012 15:33
wiring through hulls and keel bolts to anode? Jazman Construction, Maintenance & Refit 3 01-03-2008 05:21
Willard Keel Bolts MV Construction, Maintenance & Refit 4 29-08-2007 20:40
Keel Bolts..... Prflyer1 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 21 06-06-2007 16:54
Rust/Cracks Around Keel Bolts chicago sailor Construction, Maintenance & Refit 13 15-05-2006 15:25


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:50.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.