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Old 18-04-2009, 07:05   #1
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IP 27 vs Pacific Seacraft Orion

I am planning on purchasing a boat next Spring, and while I am still very open minded about what I will end up with, I believe that my top two choices are the Island Packet 27 and the Orion. My budget, for the boat itself, is $38,000. These are both "large" 27 footers, well built and are bluewater capable. I would be interested to hear what you folks, who are certainly more knowledgeable than myself, have to say about them.

Is one more "livable" than the other? My girlfriend and small dog will liveaboard as well so any extra storage space would be appreciated. And, yes I know that it is crazy to have a couple and a dog on a 27-footer, but that is what our budget entails and I know we will be able to handle it. Is there much of a difference in the quality of construction between the two boats? Any common design flaws with either boat? If my inboard was to eventually poop out, is it possible to install a large outboard on either boat? Any light you could shed on this decision would be helpful.

I am leaning toward the IP for a few reasons: there are a lot more available and I could likely get a better deal, I might be able to save on shipping if I can buy one close enough to home (Chicago) to sail it back, the IP uses Polycore decks which are more resisant to rot than the Orion's, and IP is still in business which may be helpful if I ever need parts. With that being said, the Orion looks more beautiful to me.

I am a long way off from the purchase, but I want to be as informed as possible before making this huge decision. Thank you for your help. Safe sailing.

-Jake
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Old 18-04-2009, 09:29   #2
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I'm going to confuse you even more. have you looked at a Norsea 27. You can find one with an aft cabin. You can trailer it. And they are probably the best sailor of the three. I believe you can pick one up in your price range. Even though it has been sold, here are some great photos Nor'sea 27 For Sale, Used Norsea, Nor-sea. Ocean going, trailerable pocket cruiser

Of course alot depends on what use your going to put it to. The IP is probably the roomiest. But shes fat and slow....always trade offs.

Good luck in your quest.
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Old 18-04-2009, 10:19   #3
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I have certainly looked at the Norsea, and have not ruled it out. It appears to be much less roomy than the IP or PS though, with it's 8' beam. Speed is really at the bottom of my priority list, so the IP's lack of it is not much of a concern. I have never seen a Norsea and would be interested to check one out and see if I like the aft cabin. If I did get one of those I would likely use the aft cabin as the main sleeping area and use the front of the cabin simply for living/dining.

I am also hesitant to purchase a double-ender as I am worried about engine troubles, and if my engine ever quits on me, I would much prefer to replace it with an outboard. I would then have more storage space and something which is easier to work on. I am not ruling out a double ender, as I also really like the Westsail 28, but the ability to change to an outboard would be a big plus for me.
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Old 18-04-2009, 13:02   #4
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I think the aft cabin is just for sleeping. I really don't think you can go wrong with any of the boats you mention. mostly it will be what pulls at your heart strings the most. Also I think it would be easy to add an outboard bracket on the stern of a Norsea, not as easy but very doable. At one point I was looking at all the boats you are. I ended up with an enginelss 22' Falmouth Cutter. Had her for 16 years and sailed her far and wide....had a ball!

Trying to decide which boat is almost as fun as owning her.
Good luck!
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Old 18-04-2009, 17:52   #5
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Thumbs up IP27

Having previously sailed with friends on each of the yachts--IP27, Orion and NS27--I have to say I would choose the IP27 tho', truth be told, I prefer the look of the Orion. The NS27 was also a good boat, I suppose, but it just felt very small in all respects. Some friends of ours sailed their IP27 from San Francisco to England and liked the yacht as much at the end of their journey as at the start, so they brought her home (albeit as deck cargo to NYC) and have her to this day. I question whether you can get one for $38K (USD), however. In any case, good luck!

FWIW...

s/v HyLyte
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Old 18-04-2009, 18:56   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seacap View Post
I'm going to confuse you even more. have you looked at a Norsea 27. You can find one with an aft cabin. You can trailer it. And they are probably the best sailor of the three. I believe you can pick one up in your price range. Even though it has been sold, here are some great photos Nor'sea 27 For Sale, Used Norsea, Nor-sea. Ocean going, trailerable pocket cruiser

Of course alot depends on what use your going to put it to. The IP is probably the roomiest. But shes fat and slow....always trade offs.

Good luck in your quest.
seacap,
thanks for the pics of the nor'sea 27, that boat is sweet.
i would love to see one.
laying in the aft birth would be the deciding factor, it's hard to tell if there is enough room in a pic.
have you been in the birth?
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Old 02-05-2009, 07:06   #7
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I owned a 1985 IP 27 for 4 years. Good little boat. Minor quibblings were the engine hatch in the cockpit always leaked, no propane system and the outside teak . I wil never own a boat with wood toe rails or any wood on deck unless I can afford to have someone else take care of it! They are solidly built but are not light air performers. I developed a (start the) motor-tack technique to get the boat to come about in light air. I would say she sailed betted in a blow than my Beneteau. The factory has great support - I needed an owners manual for wirig and they sent me one. Good news - in 4 years I broke even when I sold her. I'm 6-4 and for a small bot she was pretty comfortable. Brand loyalty for Island Packets is tremendous and I helped deliver a IP40 from San Francisco to San Diego a few years back
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:47   #8
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This fellow on Bainbridge Island in the Puget Sound has been listing this Orion for a month or so. Looks like a real beaut.

Taking Pocket Cruiser in Partial Trade

Can anyone experienced with Orions see any negatives here?
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:54   #9
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Thank you, I saw that one on Yachtworld. Unfortunately I am in Chicago so it is a bit too far away. There are a few on the East coast that might work though.

I appreciate the info abut the IP 27. I realized it would be slow, especially in light airs, but I really would not want to have to run the engine just to come about. Good thing I have a lot of time to think about this.
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Old 02-05-2009, 12:13   #10
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I thought I had decided on an Orion 27 back in 1990, but stumbled on a Shannon 28 while looking and have had her for 18 years. A tad higher than you have indicated you are looking for, but you can go anywhere in comfort, and never have to motor-tack.

Enjoy the search,
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Old 16-06-2009, 19:40   #11
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IP 27 vs S-2 11.0CC

I have been looking at an IP-27 to live aboard as a single retiree. I live on the coast of SC and use the ICW and Atlantic, but doubt any blue water except Bahamas. Is there a problem with hanging lockers and storage for live aboard.

I stumbled across an S-2 11.0 center cockpit that is in the same price range and has much more living space. It also seems pretty quick and yet is strong.

Any suggestions, comments or nay saying on either of these two totally different options for a single guy to live on. Thanks, John
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Old 16-06-2009, 23:43   #12
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I sailed a IP27 the "Golden Skip" from Galveston to Isla Mujeres and back (about 1200miles). There were three of us and it didnt feel too cramped. the pros-good sailor, strong, great cockpit. The cons- the wide beam made it a bit precarious going forward from companionway to v-berth. There is not much to hang onto, my captain got thrown across the cabin when a wave hit our beam because of this. It took me about a week to figure out what sail plan she really liked and when I finally did she lifted a foot out of the water and flew!
Here is a site that compares statistic for used production boats like motion comfort and capsize ratio Sail Calculator Pro v3.53 - 2000+ boats .
Happy sailing,
Erika
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Old 17-06-2009, 08:57   #13
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thanks ocean girl

thanks for the info, sounds like the little boat is pretty strong and just requires some tweaking to get the max out of her.

What about storage for clothing (hanging lockers) etc. Only saw one located in head. As I am downsizing and moving aboard I still do have junk to consider.
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Old 17-06-2009, 09:04   #14
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My impressions: the IP is a much bigger feeling boat than the Orion. The NorSea is a very small 27 and narrow. I would be real surprised if the Norsea sails as well as either based on the shallow draft stubby keel, but then again, I've never sailed one!!
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Old 17-06-2009, 11:52   #15
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Why not a Shannon 28? Very nice boat, but you have to luck into an inexpensive one. It will be roomier than the Orion and Norsea but not as roomy as the IP. But I bet it will sail better.

I saw the Shannon 28 currently for sale in Maine. Gorgeous, well-maintained boat, but even the broker thought it was overpriced. There is another for sale in Canada for 44K (U.S.).
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